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[McLaren Fan]

I doubt anyone would have been punished. We've see countless times when 2 cars have raced down the pit lane. I can think of worse moments in the pitlane that went unchallenged, like Alonso and Vettel in Germany. I'm not saying what Massa and Ferrari did was safe.. but it wasn't the first time it was done.
Massa got fined... he'd have got a Hamilton France pen if there was a crash

The pit lane in Valencia is less than half the width of pit lanes at other circuits. Two cars, therefore, cannot really go by side by side without causing an accident of some form, either amongst themselves or other things in the pitlane, such as mechanics, television people, the safety car etc. Rule 23.1.i of the sporting regulations reads: 'It is the responsibility of the competitor to release his car after a pit stop only when it is safe to do so.' What Ferrari did was clearly in breach of that, especially at this circuit.

[EwanM]

I doubt anyone would have been punished. We've see countless times when 2 cars have raced down the pit lane. I can think of worse moments in the pitlane that went unchallenged, like Alonso and Vettel in Germany. I'm not saying what Massa and Ferrari did was safe.. but it wasn't the first time it was done.
Massa got fined... he'd have got a Hamilton France pen if there was a crash

The pit lane in Valencia is less than half the width of pit lanes at other circuits. Two cars, therefore, cannot really go by side by side without causing an accident of some form, either amongst themselves or other things in the pitlane, such as mechanics, television people, the safety car etc. Rule 23.1.i of the sporting regulations reads: 'It is the responsibility of the competitor to release his car after a pit stop only when it is safe to do so.' What Ferrari did was clearly in breach of that, especially at this circuit.

Yeah, they kinda boobed, but that doesn't mean it is ok at any other circuit just because the pit lane was wide enough.
To his credit at least Massa backed off. No point throwing away a victory.
The rules have never been enforced correctly, there isn't anyone strong enough to clamp down on it. Max no longer has the legitimacy to be listened to.
Hopefully after today we get a bit more clarification about punishment for this, but I highly doubt it'll happen, in competitive times people do crazy things.

[McLaren Fan]

For me, it just goes to show how corrupt and inconsistent Formula One really is. What has, for instance, the introduction of a chief steward brought to Formula One? The same inconsistent, nonsensical decisions are still being made. Like I said yesterday, take what happened in the Hungarian Grand Prix three weeks ago and compare it with yesterday's qualifying session. In Hungary, Bourdais gets penalised for nothing. He was stuck in traffic himself and was on a part of the track where he had no way of avoiding Heidfeld, who was miles behind anyway. Then, yesterday, Glock impeded Heidfeld a hell of a lot more than Bourdais "did", but nothing more is done about it.

[EwanM]

For me, it just goes to show how corrupt and inconsistent Formula One really is. What has, for instance, the introduction of a chief steward brought to Formula One? The same inconsistent, nonsensical decisions are still being made. Like I said yesterday, take what happened in the Hungarian Grand Prix three weeks ago and compare it with yesterday's qualifying session. In Hungary, Bourdais gets penalised for nothing. He was stuck in traffic himself and was on a part of the track where he had no way of avoiding Heidfeld, who was miles behind anyway. Then, yesterday, Glock impeded Heidfeld a hell of a lot more than Bourdais "did", but nothing more is done about it.

Do you think it would work if Stewards could be held accountable for their decisions. I no there is the FIA hearing appeals, but I think they should make what evidence they have to convict driver and team, more available to the public.
Certainly I would like to see what decisions they made today. Maybe they should minute their actions?

[McLaren Fan]

Do you think it would work if Stewards could be held accountable for their decisions. I no there is the FIA hearing appeals, but I think they should make what evidence they have to convict driver and team, more available to the public.
Certainly I would like to see what decisions they made today. Maybe they should minute their actions?

Yeah, I agree. Something like that should be done, but I don't think it ever will. There are reasons why the decision-making process is so secretive.

[EwanM]

Do you think it would work if Stewards could be held accountable for their decisions. I no there is the FIA hearing appeals, but I think they should make what evidence they have to convict driver and team, more available to the public.
Certainly I would like to see what decisions they made today. Maybe they should minute their actions?

Yeah, I agree. Something like that should be done, but I don't think it ever will. There are reasons why the decision-making process is so secretive.

Same with the "CCTV FOOTAGE" at Magny Cours they used on Hamilton.
If they wanna show they are impartial or have any evidence they should issue it on the night after the race or something. Would certainly give me more reason to trust the decision being made.

[McLaren Fan]

Same with the "CCTV FOOTAGE" at Magny Cours they used on Hamilton.
If they wanna show they are impartial or have any evidence they should issue it on the night after the race or something. Would certainly give me more reason to trust the decision being made.

Regarding the incident in France, if Hamilton's overtaking maneuver deserved a penalty, they should have had no problem releasing he CCTV footage. Even if Hamilton did deserve penalised, keeping the footage secret just fuels speculation and breeds mistrust in the system.

[EwanM]

Same with the "CCTV FOOTAGE" at Magny Cours they used on Hamilton.
If they wanna show they are impartial or have any evidence they should issue it on the night after the race or something. Would certainly give me more reason to trust the decision being made.

Regarding the incident in France, if Hamilton's overtaking maneuver deserved a penalty, they should have had no problem releasing he CCTV footage. Even if Hamilton did deserve penalised, keeping the footage secret just fuels speculation and breeds mistrust in the system.

Exactly. Time to open all this up,
As I said in a previous forum... If I was FIA president haha

And I do agree, if the had the CCTV footage, why not show us? I mean it doesn't stop Crimewatch now does it?

[McLaren Fan]

Here is a brilliant article on the matter: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/24/f ... ery-count/

[EwanM]

Here is a brilliant article on the matter: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/24/f ... ery-count/

Thanks for that, it does give a pretty good analysis.

[McLaren Fan]

A fair analysis, too. That's one of the reasons why I like F1 Fanatic.

[juggles]

No I dont think he should be penalised because the blame should be directed more toward's the team and not the driver for this particular incident, strictly my opinion though.

Formula One is a team sport, so that doesn't matter. What's the difference between an engine which the team built failing and the team releasing their driver too early from the pits? The driver still is the one who suffers. I had to laugh at Blundell's view that because no damage was done, what happened was okay. The rule is there to prevent a dangerous situation, which was particularly likely to happen in Valencia's extremely narrow pitlane. If Massa and Sutil collided, the whole exit to the pitlane would have been blocked, ruining numerous teams' and drivers' race. Ferrari didn't care about this and allowed Massa to leave his pit box early to try and get past the back marker. There was no need to do this. Sutil would have moved out of the way quickly and Massa had a good margin over Hamilton's McLaren. The rules are very clear on this matter. Teams in Formula One have been punished for less serious breaches of this rule and in the lower formula, and I'm particularly talking about GP2 the stewards punished drivers and teams for this type of offence. Once again, however, it's one rule for Ferrari and another rule for the other competitors. Also, as the race was being held in Spain, I'm sure a few Spaniards would not have liked to see Hamilton and a McLaren win the Grand Prix. If McLaren had done something similar, I've no doubts a drive-through penalty would have been given in the race. Formula One f***ing stinks.

I was going to spend 10 minutes on a post, but then saw this which echoed my sentiments pretty much exactly!

[digitaleye]

No penalty. A close call for sure but its a new track with a really narrow pit lane. I think one can make allowances. Plus, Ferrari are now on notice so if there are any more pit lane "issues" they wont have an argument.

[Denthúl]

A fair analysis, too. That's one of the reasons why I like F1 Fanatic.

The article still hints at the wrong kind of punishments, though. Emphasis should not be placed on penalising the driver, but the team, which is where a fine (and one that actually hurts, not €10,000 which even the smallest teams can afford to pay without worrying so much) is far more appropriate.

[AKR]

Massa got no punishment. I didn't think he would. If they wanted to punish Massa then he would of gotten a 10 second drive through penalty. When I saw that it would be investigated after the race, I was quite confident that Massa would escape penalty with only a "Jokeable Fine". And rightfully he did.