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[AKR]

From Wikipedia in the article for Alian Prost.

"The championship once again came to the penultimate round of the season in Japan with Prost trailing his McLaren adversary, Ayrton Senna, by nine points. As in 1989, a controversial collision between the two settled the race. At the first corner Senna, as he later admitted, intentionally drove his race car into Prost's, taking them both out of the race and sealing the title in his favour. "What he did was disgusting," Prost said. "He is a man without value."[16] Prost finished the season seven points behind Senna, and his Ferrari team were runners-up to McLaren."

So he even admitted to cheating. I don't believe Prost delibratly took Senna out the year before and that was a pure accident. But of cause Senna's revenge had to stuff up Ferrari. I strongly believe Prost would of won the Japanese GP back in 1990 had Senna not taken him out and then the result in the last race was Piquet (Benetton) 1st, Mansell (Ferrari) 2nd, and Prost (Ferrari) 3rd and Senna (McLaren) DNF. (Although he was leading before he crashed). So that would of meant both Prost and Ferrari would of been drivers and constructors champions back in 1990. Hummmm we all critisize Michael Schumacher for what he did to win his title in 1994 to Damon Hill and what he tried to do to Jacques Villeneuve to win the title in 1997. But when Senna admits to it, I guess it is all ok. Fair enough, the guy is no longer around so let's let him rest in peace. But maybe I should make a footer that looks like this.

Ferrari Constructors Champions 1961, 1964, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1990, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2007

and

Ferrari Drivers Champions 1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1964, 1975, 1977, 1979, 1990, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 2007.

But that is ok, I probably wont do it because I am not a McLaren Fan.

[texasmr2]

Very very old new's and in the wrong forum so I moved it and added it to the topic discussing Senna.

[AKR]

Very very old new's and in the wrong forum so I moved it and added it to the topic discussing Senna.

Really? It was 18 years ago.

[texasmr2]

Very very old new's and in the wrong forum so I moved it and added it to the topic discussing Senna.

Really? It was 18 years ago.

It's not old new's for me, and some of our other member's aswell, since I watched those race's and championship battle's live as they played out. I know I know you just like stirring the pot so consider it stirred.

[AKR]

Very very old new's and in the wrong forum so I moved it and added it to the topic discussing Senna.

Really? It was 18 years ago.

It's not old new's for me, and some of our other member's aswell, since I watched those race's and championship battle's live as they played out. I know I know you just like stirring the pot so consider it stirred.

Well ok I was too young to have watched that season live but as I grew up and was with older people learning to follow Ferrari, I watched those races not live and was tought one of the reasons why I shoudn't like McLaren was because of that, which then lead to the next thing and then to the next..... That is hard to understand. Perhaps see it like this. McLaren dominated the late 80s. Fair enough. Ferrari then could of won in 1990 but didn't because someone decided to have his personal revenge. Then the following year Ferrari gets beaten easily by McLaren and goes backwards. Ferrari then has to wait 9 and 10 years after that respectively to win a constructors and drivers champiosnhip and in between those years Mclaren ends up winning also the drivers in 1998 and 1999 and the constructors in 1998. Tell me why I should "like" McLaren? I guess the dominance of Schumacher was never enough for me. Perhaps the payback of the punsihment McLaren got in 2007 was good enough so I guess I can now relax my stance on McLaren for now. But regardless if I watched those races live or not, I have watched then all from 1988 onwards and some older ones too so I know a lot more than you think.

[texasmr2]

Watching rerun's imho does not give one the true insight of watching them live but that's just how I view it.

[McLaren Fan]

AKR, you've missed out a number of pieces of important information in reaching your views. Senna was no angel in 1988 and 1989, but you really should be blaming Prost and Balestre for what happened in 1989 and Balestre for what happened in 1990.

[AKR]

AKR, you've missed out a number of pieces of important information in reaching your views. Senna was no angel in 1988 and 1989, but if you really should be blaming Prost and Balestre for what happened in 1989 and Balestre for what happened in 1990.

I don't doubt what you say Chris, it is just as a Ferrari supporter I feel we got the short end of the stick. When Prost did it to Senna in 1989, as a McLaren fan you would of still been a winner. The only people who lost out were people like yourself who are also actually Senna fans. For me I lost out altogether because when Prost got taken out back by Senna, he was driving for Ferrari and thus not only did he lose out but so did Ferrari.

[bud]

Seems AKR you were brought up to dislike McLaren just as much as to like Ferrari.

thats sad

[7UpJordan]

AKR, you've missed out a number of pieces of important information in reaching your views. Senna was no angel in 1988 and 1989, but if you really should be blaming Prost and Balestre for what happened in 1989 and Balestre for what happened in 1990.

And even Senna came out and blamed Balestre and FISA in those years, not Prost. And then for good measure after he won his final title in 1991 just after Mad Max had been appointed he rubbed it in Balestre's face again.

I think what we miss today is drivers not afraid to stand up to the FIA and tell them what they really think because Senna ran the risk of being not allowed to compete in 1990 after what he had to say, and just before he was allowed to compete at Phoenix, McLaren had Dr Palmer ready to race in his place. The only person in the current F1 paddock to stand up to Mad Max and co is Ron Dennis.

[McLaren Fan]

AKR, you've missed out a number of pieces of important information in reaching your views. Senna was no angel in 1988 and 1989, but if you really should be blaming Prost and Balestre for what happened in 1989 and Balestre for what happened in 1990.

And even Senna came out and blamed Balestre and FISA in those years, not Prost. And then for good measure after he won his final title in 1991 just after Mad Max had been appointed he rubbed it in Balestre's face again.

I think what we miss today is drivers not afraid to stand up to the FIA and tell them what they really think because Senna ran the risk of being not allowed to compete in 1990 after what he had to say, and just before he was allowed to compete at Phoenix, McLaren had Dr Palmer ready to race in his place. The only person in the current F1 paddock to stand up to Mad Max and co is Ron Dennis.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ZTHFj6CaM

Brilliant stuff. Slap it up you, Balestre!

I think, 7Up, Frank Williams did stand up to the FIA in the past, for instance, in 1997, he along with Ron Dennis and one other team (Ligier, I think) refused to sign a new Concorde Agreement. Not surprisingly, McLaren, Williams and Ligier were shafted with an odd series of penalties. Frank Williams has toned down things a bit, perhaps because Williams is not in such a strong position any more, so can be pushed around more easily and can't absorb absurd penalties as it used to.

[AKR]

The only person in the current F1 paddock to stand up to Mad Max and co is Ron Dennis.

Didn't get him far now did it.

[AKR]

Seems AKR you were brought up to dislike McLaren just as much as to like Ferrari.

thats sad

Oh well that is my life, taught to like some things and dislike their adversaries. Weather it be in sport or political stuff. Oh well you might think its sad but I certainly do not. It just makes me more passionate, firey and emotional and that makes me a much stronger person.

I guess Senna was passionate, firey and emotional as well and look how strong he was. and there were plenty of things and people he disliked as well.

[bud]

Seems AKR you were brought up to dislike McLaren just as much as to like Ferrari.

thats sad

Oh well that is my life, taught to like some things and dislike their adversaries. Weather it be in sport or political stuff. Oh well you might think its sad but I certainly do not. It just makes me more passionate, firey and emotional and that makes me a much stronger person.

a strong person wouldnt go into hiding or lose sleep when their team loses!

sport.... politics..... taught at a young age to dislike s***..... sounds like brainwashing mindless lamb talk to me i was taught by my father those people are nutters

[AKR]

a strong person wouldnt go into hiding or lose sleep when their team loses!

Sometimes strong people get tired and need a rest after a guttering defeat. I certainly didn't hide when Hamilton won a deserving German GP win, even if I didnt like it. The Massa incident was different and I don't need to explain why as you already know. Sometimes even strong minded fighters need to lay low and that is what I did.

sport.... politics..... taught at a young age to dislike s***..... sounds like brainwashing mindless lamb talk to me i was taught by my father those people are nutters

I was taught by my mother that my ethnic roots are very important and to always be proud of it. My father taught me to respect those who are your friends and give you opportunties you would otherwise not have had. Both have political ties and I guess I have taken things further and applied it to all poltical aspect and even sport. I don't think I am a nutter and certainly not my parents.