FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[MachWebber99]

This has been something that I have been thinking of over the past few seasons. In this sport its quite common for people to have short term memories, but in the case of Williams im wondering with the teams at the front (Ferrari and Mclaren Mercedes) and emerging teams (BMW, Renault) the trend of success seems to be sticking to the manufacturers.
Im wondering will Williams ever be in a position to challenge and/or win another championship?
Id love to see other peoples thoughts on this?

[Denthúl]

Unfortunately, I think it is entirely dependent on the budget capping or Williams having a similar engine partnership deal to when they were with BMW. They need the money coming in or else a limit on other teams so that the playing field is leveled somewhat. Which is a shame, really, because Williams are one of those teams that should have more championships to their name.

[7UpJordan]

I think they will, and this is not blind faith. If their gamble in switching their resources to 2009 so early pays off for them next season in the fact they are back up towards the top they can look forward to re-joining the McLaren/Ferrari battles.

[Denthúl]

I think they will, and this is not blind faith. If their gamble in switching their resources to 2009 so early pays off for them next season in the fact they are back up towards the top they can look forward to re-joining the McLaren/Ferrari battles.

Assuming, of course, that McLaren and Ferrari don't go backwards

I think it would be interesting if the top three teams of next year were, say, Williams, BMW Sauber and Red Bull. Maybe Honda or Renault in there as well. And absolutely hilarious if it were Force India!

[7UpJordan]

I think they will, and this is not blind faith. If their gamble in switching their resources to 2009 so early pays off for them next season in the fact they are back up towards the top they can look forward to re-joining the McLaren/Ferrari battles.

Assuming, of course, that McLaren and Ferrari don't go backwards

I think it would be interesting if the top three teams of next year were, say, Williams, BMW Sauber and Red Bull. Maybe Honda or Renault in there as well. And absolutely hilarious if it were Force India!

McLaren and Ferrari won't go backwards, if anything there's the risk they will get caught. And with less emphasis being put on aerodynamics - something Williams have struggled with without Newey - they can catch them.

[FerrariFan63]

In the short term F1 has become dominated by manufacturers. But it's entirely possible that economic conditions in the future could change (are changing?) and manufacturers might start withdrawing. Then lots of things could change.

[al4x]

not without a budget cap

[McLaren Fan]

What I'm never sure about this: if Williams (et al.) are struggling to keep up the pace this year and are therefore switching their efforts to next season, how are they going to magically be able to maintain their challenge to meet whatever goals they've set for themselves next season? For example, let's say that Williams were involved in the title race next season, they would have focus all their efforts on 2009 and sacrifice the following year due to a lack of resources. Take a look at their opposition. McLaren, for instance, are massively developing this season's car as well as next season's simultaneously. Hell, they're even considering designing two cars for next year. There is no way a team like Williams can compete against teams like that. The only way Williams will be able to get back to their old form - something I personally would like to see - is for budget caps to come along.

[7UpJordan]

If we're ever going to see budget caps Mosley should get on with it and put down the whip.

[EwanM]

What I'm never sure about this: if Williams (et al.) are struggling to keep up the pace this year and are therefore switching their efforts to next season, how are they going to magically be able to maintain their challenge to meet whatever goals they've set for themselves next season? For example, let's say that Williams were involved in the title race next season, they would have focus all their efforts on 2009 and sacrifice the following year due to a lack of resources. Take a look at their opposition. McLaren, for instance, are massively developing this season's car as well as next season's simultaneously. Hell, they're even considering designing two cars for next year. There is no way a team like Williams can compete against teams like that. The only way Williams will be able to get back to their old form - something I personally would like to see - is for budget caps to come along.

See Williams shot themselves in the foot by splitting with BMW. Having no manufacturer backing has hurt them. Unlike the deep pockets of Red Bull and even Force India's owners, Williams have to rely on sponsors and they probably don't have the same sort of budget to surge forward.
If i was Frank and Patrick, id be trying to contact Audi. Williams teaming up with a manufacturer is the only way I can see them returning to the front. And I mean more than just engine supplying like now

[madbrad]

BMW left Williams after much prodding from Mario. Frank and Patrick wanted BMW to not only stick around, but to increase its stake in the team.

To answer the OP question, Williams would need the best engine in the field to get a title. They don't have that. Nor will they in the forseeable future unless F1 undergoes a gradual shift away from manufacturers. That is, they leave and just supply works engines like a decade ago. Until that happens, the days of the garagistes are long gone.

[bud]

BMW left Williams after much prodding from Mario. Frank and Patrick wanted BMW to not only stick around, but to increase its stake in the team.

i thought Frank and Patrick didnt want to sell any stake let alone the team to BMW thats why BMW went and bought Sauber for total control of the OP?

and the current engine they have i wouldnt call it a slouch as the Toyota works team is doing pretty well lately, i think its down to the $$$ and not being able develop the car at the same pace as the top teams as the season goes along.

[McLaren Fan]

Well, whatever the ins and outs of the BMW saga are, I think that Williams need a decent-sized manufacturer to invest in the team. Ron Dennis had to sell TAG some of McLaren soon after he took over the team and sold a little more of McLaren to Mercedes to get their backing. Williams would not need to give away too much equity to secure the investment of car manufacturer, certainly with assurances that they could fully take over the team when Frank Williams and Patrick Head retire. Let's face it, they're not going to continue at Williams for ever and the team will have to be sold on sometime in the future. They may as well plan for it now instead of allowing their team and its legacy to slip into the obisk.

[EwanM]

Well, whatever the ins and outs of the BMW saga are, I think that Williams need a decent-sized manufacturer to invest in the team. Ron Dennis had to sell TAG some of McLaren soon after he took over the team and sold a little more of McLaren to Mercedes to get their backing. Williams would not need to give away too much equity to secure the investment of car manufacturer, certainly with assurances that they could fully take over the team when Frank Williams and Patrick Head retire. Let's face it, they're not going to continue at Williams for ever and the team will have to be sold on sometime in the future. They may as well plan for it now instead of allowing their team and its legacy to slip into the obisk.

You see it happen to the best of teams, when their influence cannot keep up with the changing times.
Look at Lotus's slow decline

[Martin]

Well, whatever the ins and outs of the BMW saga are, I think that Williams need a decent-sized manufacturer to invest in the team. Ron Dennis had to sell TAG some of McLaren soon after he took over the team and sold a little more of McLaren to Mercedes to get their backing. Williams would not need to give away too much equity to secure the investment of car manufacturer, certainly with assurances that they could fully take over the team when Frank Williams and Patrick Head retire. Let's face it, they're not going to continue at Williams for ever and the team will have to be sold on sometime in the future. They may as well plan for it now instead of allowing their team and its legacy to slip into the obisk.

Well it is certain that Williams need more support, but not ,necessarily, a car manufacturer. They need a large sponsor and a good engine supplier, but they have the expertise to do the rest themselves, if they have the finance to do it.
There are still 4 places on the grid unfilled for next year, Williams, Torro Rosso, Force India and even Honda & Toyota may be vulnerable in the next few years. Bernie has to refill the grid, and to get more privateers, like Williams.
I think that Bernie needs to create a playing field that gives well sponsored privateers a good way in, or to maintain their position. That's the way forward, I don't think that many more car manufacturers are likely to be queuing up to join F1, but, with sponsors like Red Bull privateers can do well. (yes I know I just said that TR could be vulnerable, but I don't think that there is an issue over RB sponsorship of the team.)