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[bud]

What happened today is not in any way, shape or form comparable to Ferrari and Schumacher's antics. Now, Ferrari fans, stop trying to reduce your feelings of guilt at your teams sly tactics.

You're right, Ferrari never sent out a press release "Our drivers are free to race, there are no team orders at Ferrari" then blatently used team orders. Only Mclaren has stooped that low...

no they just make one of their drivers pit with 5 laps to go so the other one can gain position

[bmwpower]

I believed that no team order was issued regarding Heikki and LH, BUT I believed what Heikki did was GUTLESS. Last time I checked, its a RACE, you are paid to get the best possible position out of your car, you are obligated to the paying customers ( Cable, Satellite, Spectators, Sponsors) to fight to the very end, not to park your car so your teammate can pass. I know the argument some of you are making is that Heikki has "common sense" because he realized LH is faster, unless your teammate is giving you a bj, you still have to race him. Yes LH was faster then Heikki, but so was Kimi Vs. Kubica, Kubica put up a fight knowing that the Ferrari would just pull away. Jenson fought DC, Massa fought LH, even Piquet tried to hold off LH. Either Heikki's parking was the best move of the race because it allowed LH to save time to catch Massa or it was the worse move of the race because it showed Heikki being gutless. Some of you tried to bring in the argument about Ferrari's checkered past, you can argue all day long about it but McLaren is no different from Ferrari. At least with Ferrari they have the guts to do it blatanly, with Mclaren its all about being sneaky. GUTLESS

[bud]

what a load of s***

[Red Racer]

I believed that no team order was issued regarding Heikki and LH, BUT I believed what Heikki did was GUTLESS. Last time I checked, its a RACE, you are paid to get the best possible position out of your car, you are obligated to the paying customers ( Cable, Satellite, Spectators, Sponsors) to fight to the very end, not to park your car so your teammate can pass. I know the argument some of you are making is that Heikki has "common sense" because he realized LH is faster, unless your teammate is giving you a bj, you still have to race him. Yes LH was faster then Heikki, but so was Kimi Vs. Kubica, Kubica put up a fight knowing that the Ferrari would just pull away. Jenson fought DC, Massa fought LH, even Piquet tried to hold off LH. Either Heikki's parking was the best move of the race because it allowed LH to save time to catch Massa or it was the worse move of the race because it showed Heikki being gutless. Some of you tried to bring in the argument about Ferrari's checkered past, you can argue all day long about it but McLaren is no different from Ferrari. At least with Ferrari they have the guts to do it blatanly, with Mclaren its all about being sneaky. GUTLESS

I agree with you exept that massa gave it away almost as easy as Heikki, he went to defend but then backed out of it.
edit: I dont think he was completly gutless but he could of looked like he ran wide or something else.

[Kiwi_Chris]

There was nothing gutless in what Heikki did, he did what was best for the team and since his team was significantly faster than ANYONE on the track that day it was wise to let him pass. When your team mate is battling for the championship and your not it makes sense not to hold them up.What Heikki did isnt comparable to what Ferrari did to Irivine and Barrichello, they were ordered to let Schumi past- if Mclaren had done that they would be penalised.
Heikki knew that there was no point him compromising his team mates race, really what team mates have been doing for years (hell peter collins handed his car over to Fangio no one here would call that gutless)

[KyrosV]

Would Lewis move over for Hiekki? no

Hiekki Is nothing more than a whore at Mclaren, and he should get out before he turns into another Eddie Irvine

[TechniqueFreak]

Those buttons are pushed God knows how many times throughout a Grand Prix. Ron Dennis could have been talking to the Pope for all you know. Team orders are banned in Formula One. If McLaren had of told Kovalainen to let Hamilton by, Hamilton would have been disqualified by now and the team punished as well.

Oh puh-leaze. Are you serious? Are you seriously saying that Hamilton's passing Kovalainen had nothing to do with them both driving for McLaren? I suppose Kovalainen "voluntarily" let Hamilton past, did he? He just wanted the best interests of his team to be served out of the goodness of his heart? "Do you have any evidence?" give me a break. You watched the same race as the rest of the world - Kovalainen ran massively wide, without locking a brake, into the same corner he'd had no problem hitting the apex the last 50 or so times around. Hamilton wasn't even trying to overtake Kovy, as is shown by the fact he was on the outside, unlike all the other overtaking moves he made at that corner. Jaysus, Kovy was going so slow at that point Hamilton had to overtake him or hit him!

It was team orders - implied, coded, suggested, encouraged, nudge nudge wink wink call it what you like, just like it was for Raikkonen in Brazil last year, just like every other unbiased commentator (including ITV's Hamilton-mad JA and MB) has concluded. Whether or not there is evidence tipping the balance of probabilities that sporting regulation blah was breached is beside the point. I know you're a fan of McLaren, but lets call a spade a spade shall we?

[McLaren Fan]

I believed that no team order was issued regarding Heikki and LH, BUT I believed what Heikki did was GUTLESS. Last time I checked, its a RACE, you are paid to get the best possible position out of your car, you are obligated to the paying customers ( Cable, Satellite, Spectators, Sponsors) to fight to the very end, not to park your car so your teammate can pass. I know the argument some of you are making is that Heikki has "common sense" because he realized LH is faster, unless your teammate is giving you a bj, you still have to race him. Yes LH was faster then Heikki, but so was Kimi Vs. Kubica, Kubica put up a fight knowing that the Ferrari would just pull away. Jenson fought DC, Massa fought LH, even Piquet tried to hold off LH. Either Heikki's parking was the best move of the race because it allowed LH to save time to catch Massa or it was the worse move of the race because it showed Heikki being gutless. Some of you tried to bring in the argument about Ferrari's checkered past, you can argue all day long about it but McLaren is no different from Ferrari. At least with Ferrari they have the guts to do it blatanly, with Mclaren its all about being sneaky. GUTLESS

What a load of rubbish.

Would Lewis move over for Hiekki?

Hiekki Is nothing more than a whore at Mclaren, and he should get out before he turns into another Eddie Irvine.

More like Kovalainen should have got his act together and been involved in the race and/or championship battle. If Kovalainen was faster than Hamilton or if he or both were involved in the championship battle, he would not have moved out of the way for Hamilton.

Oh puh-leaze. Are you serious? Are you seriously saying that Hamilton's passing Kovalainen had nothing to do with them both driving for McLaren? I suppose Kovalainen "voluntarily" let Hamilton past, did he? He just wanted the best interests of his team to be served out of the goodness of his heart? "Do you have any evidence?" give me a break. You watched the same race as the rest of the world - Kovalainen ran massively wide, without locking a brake, into the same corner he'd had no problem hitting the apex the last 50 or so times around. Hamilton wasn't even trying to overtake Kovy, as is shown by the fact he was on the outside, unlike all the other overtaking moves he made at that corner. Jaysus, Kovy was going so slow at that point Hamilton had to overtake him or hit him!

It was team orders - implied, coded, suggested, encouraged, nudge nudge wink wink call it what you like, just like it was for Raikkonen in Brazil last year, just like every other unbiased commentator (including ITV's Hamilton-mad JA and MB) has concluded. Whether or not there is evidence tipping the balance of probabilities that sporting regulation blah was breached is beside the point. I know you're a fan of McLaren, but lets call a spade a spade shall we?

I've already said that it was formation flying. I'm just telling Kyros et al. to stop spouting s*** and making the situation out to be something it's not.

[TechniqueFreak]

Oh puh-leaze. Are you serious? Are you seriously saying that Hamilton's passing Kovalainen had nothing to do with them both driving for McLaren? I suppose Kovalainen "voluntarily" let Hamilton past, did he? He just wanted the best interests of his team to be served out of the goodness of his heart? "Do you have any evidence?" give me a break. You watched the same race as the rest of the world - Kovalainen ran massively wide, without locking a brake, into the same corner he'd had no problem hitting the apex the last 50 or so times around. Hamilton wasn't even trying to overtake Kovy, as is shown by the fact he was on the outside, unlike all the other overtaking moves he made at that corner. Jaysus, Kovy was going so slow at that point Hamilton had to overtake him or hit him!

It was team orders - implied, coded, suggested, encouraged, nudge nudge wink wink call it what you like, just like it was for Raikkonen in Brazil last year, just like every other unbiased commentator (including ITV's Hamilton-mad JA and MB) has concluded. Whether or not there is evidence tipping the balance of probabilities that sporting regulation blah was breached is beside the point. I know you're a fan of McLaren, but lets call a spade a spade shall we?

I've already said that it was formation flying. I'm just telling Kyros et al. to stop spouting s*** and making the situation out to be something it's not.

Well then why are you saying sh!te like "Team orders are banned in Formula One. If McLaren had of told Kovalainen to let Hamilton by, Hamilton would have been disqualified by now and the team punished as well"?

[bud]

[FerrariFan63]

I have way to little time to get involved in long winded arguments, and will disappear until the next race.

But I'll just make my vote that what McLaren did with HK is the same as when MS got priority. Any moral or procedural differences are minor details, and of no significance.

Maybe McLaren learnt after last year that perhaps this strategy works. If they had made (presumably) Alonso an undisputed No. 1., perhaps he would now be a third time champion and still driving for McLaren.

[bud]

what we saw with Lewis and Heikki has been seen many a time since team orders were banned. team mates on different strategies leading to speed differentials with one getting out of the way not to hinder the other.
this is not the classis case of team orders where one guy had a chance at a win but was told to pull aside for his team mate.
If you cant see the difference between the two scenarios then thats your own ignorance thats the problem here

[EwanM]

I have way to little time to get involved in long winded arguments, and will disappear until the next race.

But I'll just make my vote that what McLaren did with HK is the same as when MS got priority. Any moral or procedural differences are minor details, and of no significance.

Maybe McLaren learnt after last year that perhaps this strategy works. If they had made (presumably) Alonso an undisputed No. 1., perhaps he would now be a third time champion and still driving for McLaren.

I dunno what the likes of Bud and Mclaren Fan think (or Hanwombat ) but is ther question marks starting to be raised about Heikki's race pace?
Even James Allen has picked up on it.

[bud]

he would have had a podium if not for the safety car.

his first stint was 3 laps longer than Lewis' but he did not match his pace, they did change his wings at the first stop so obviously he didnt like how the car was handling. then ofcourse under the SC he pitted which was about 10 laps earlier than scheduled and this meant 10 laps more on the soft option tyre. which was costly for Heikki also.
he did pull off a good passing move on Kubica but that is one area where i think Heikki should be more aggressive that is in race starrts. He should have passed Massa on the first lap but he broke early and took the hairpin cautiously. possibly thinking he could pass Massa in the stops and didnt want to overdrive his tyres early.

[EwanM]

he would have had a podium if not for the safety car.

his first stint was 3 laps longer than Lewis' but he did not match his pace, they did change his wings at the first stop so obviously he didnt like how the car was handling. then ofcourse under the SC he pitted which was about 10 laps earlier than scheduled and this meant 10 laps more on the soft option tyre. which was costly for Heikki also.
he did pull off a good passing move on Kubica but that is one area where i think Heikki should be more aggressive that is in race starrts. He should have passed Massa on the first lap but he broke early and took the hairpin cautiously. possibly thinking he could pass Massa in the stops and didnt want to overdrive his tyres early.

Aye that is true. Still alot of work to do, it'll take time.
The tyres obviously slowed him down, if Massa had put up more of a fight Hamilton would have began to fade to.
We'll need to see how the next few races go. He has a lot of potential, especially over a single lap. But as mentioned when attempting to overtake Massa, i'm not convinced as much as I want to be