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#56207
There's a lot of McLaren tracks coming up now, Hungary which is slow and very twisty, the new Valencia street circuit. Spa is a Ferrari circuit and Monza will probably favour McLaren's mechanical grip and ability to ride over the kerbs smoothly.
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By scotty
#56217
Well, wasn't Monaco supposedly a McLaren circuit? I know they won but they were outqualified and nowhere near as dominant as last year - and a lot of the results this season suggest that the two cars are basically much more similar than last year.
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By bud
#56219
McLaren seem stronger on the faster tracks this year over last with good mid corner speed on the fast corners. but have lost nothing much on the twisty stuff but Ferrari have made gains on the twisty stuff. Its pretty even for both teams on all tracks as it stands
#56239
Felipe Massa is what's wrong at Ferrari!

He beat Kimmi and he nearly got pole.
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By texasmr2
#56246
Car not quick enough, lukewarm performances from both drivers. What's going on?

They are in shambles on a driver front! The team and the driver's, only imo of course, are not looking at the big picture. Kimi's commitment is not be what it should be imho and Massa does not let his qualifying brilliance playover into a race winning mentality. They deserve the beating they have recieved the last two race's.
#56265
But at least he made the effort to fight back at the end when the safety car gave him a good opportunity to progess, Massa couldn't even catch, let alone pass the lowly Piquet, and he made it so easy for Hamilton to pass.

I can't believe people try to defend Massa, it's absolutely laughable.

My own opinion of Massa is that he is a nice guy and he has the right attitude, which is why he has improved his driving over the last couple of years. He does not, however, have the same God-given ability of other drivers on the grid. For example, he only performs well at certain tracks and the car is perfectly set up. I'm not sure that Massa could even work in a team with a one-two operation. In that case, you're looking for your number two driver to come second behind your main driver and be able to contribute towards the constructors' championship. Massa can't cut it a certain tracks, so is only a good number two driver at particular races throughout the year.

It never been tht good since they lost the J damper.

They're still using that piece of kit from McLaren. :hehe: It's the mass damper they badly miss.

Heck, even I would have went to the inside to defend.

I was surprised how slow Massa was at the end of the race. Hamilton would probably have got past at him at some stage because he was so much quicker, but you would have expected Massa to make it tricky for him. It looked like formation flying - between two different teams! :hehe:

There's a lot of McLaren tracks coming up now, Hungary which is slow and very twisty, the new Valencia street circuit. Spa is a Ferrari circuit and Monza will probably favour McLaren's mechanical grip and ability to ride over the kerbs smoothly.

On the face of things, that's true. Both marques have built more balanced cars this season; McLaren have made headway around the faster circuits and Ferrari have improved their mechanical grip a little bit. In other words, McLaren running off victories in Hungary and Valencia is by no means a certainty, especially when you consider things like safety cars, which nearly wrecked McLaren's chances of winning today. McLaren have made a hell of a lot of headway on their aerodynamic grip, so a Ferrari victory at Spa isn't a cert either.

Massa does not let his qualifying brilliance playover into a race winning mentality.

What qualifying brilliance? Massa normally runs light on fuel in qualifying and tries to control the race like that. This weekend is probably the only exception to that.

Both drivers are capable of more. The car and the engineering team is capable of more. Something is wrong, and I'm wondering whether there are widespread motivation problems. Have they gone too conservative with their car and there isn't enough development left in it?

Don't be such a drama queen. Ferrari's situation is not as bad as that. The engineering team are good, as evidenced by the F2008 still being a competitive car, being the best car out of the box and some of the nifty engine work Ferrari did this year. I'll concede that Raikkonen and Massa could be doing more, but Hamilton and Kovalainen have had their fair share of screw-ups and bad luck. What is happening is that McLaren have got their house in order in the last couple of years. The annoying Newey is gone, the Technology Centre is finished, Mercedes have taken over Ilmor etc. Ferrari are seeing what it's like to be up against a team with the infrastructure and resources to win races and championships.
Last edited by McLaren Fan on 20 Jul 08, 20:22, edited 2 times in total.
#56305
Felipe Massa is what's wrong at Ferrari!


Raikkonen is hardly covering himself in glory either.


But at least he made the effort to fight back at the end when the safety car gave him a good opportunity to progess, Massa couldn't even catch, let alone pass the lowly Piquet, and he made it so easy for Hamilton to pass.

I can't believe people try to defend Massa, it's absolutely laughable.



Before you post such crap, do your research! :rolleyes:
FM had balance problems and then his brakes were overheating, so he couldn't even attack NP.

What is absolutely laughable is you! :rolleyes:
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By KyrosV
#56317
its not the drivers thats wrong with ferrari, its the car. its a mess and both drivers are struggling to handle it. they need improvements and fast! The whole backroom looks a bit of a mess too. they could be heading for another 20 years of hurt!
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By texasmr2
#56329
Quite frankly I am bewildered by the team's race performance as of late. I'm gonna take a stab, ya I like stabbing :wink::wink:, at what I think might be an issue. Kimi and Felipe need to do ALOT more testing aka Schumacher style and then they will have a better grasp on setting up the car for a dominant race setup and not just qualifying.
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By scotty
#56346
But at least he made the effort to fight back at the end when the safety car gave him a good opportunity to progess, Massa couldn't even catch, let alone pass the lowly Piquet, and he made it so easy for Hamilton to pass.

I can't believe people try to defend Massa, it's absolutely laughable.

My own opinion of Massa is that he is a nice guy and he has the right attitude, which is why he has improved his driving over the last couple of years. He does not, however, have the same God-given ability of other drivers on the grid. For example, he only performs well at certain tracks and the car is perfectly set up. I'm not sure that Massa could even work in a team with a one-two operation. In that case, you're looking for your number two driver to come second behind your main driver and be able to contribute towards the constructors' championship. Massa can't cut it a certain tracks, so is only a good number two driver at particular races throughout the year.


Agreed, they're pretty much my sentiments. If he can iron out the (pretty major) inconsistency he'll be a title contender, but he's been in F1 for what, 5 or 6 years? I'd say that's a very long time to have to perfect your craft and i just can't see it happening. The only reason he's up there this season is because Hamilton and Raikkonen have had problems - principally Canada, where they would have finished 1st and 2nd surely.
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By 8-ball
#56348
Seeing as Schumacher is an adviser to the team and takes part in a few testing sessions giving his invaluable feedback to the engineers I can't see how the car is the problem. Of course Mclaren has made improvements but they are not that far ahead. The problem is the drivers, Kimi who doesn't care and Massa who can only get it together at 3 -4 tracks a season. Couple that with the inexperience of the pit wall crew who make strategy mistakes, Ferrari need to get it together and fast. Why the hell didn't they make Ross Brawn team principal!
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By scotty
#56356
Seeing as Schumacher is an adviser to the team and takes part in a few testing sessions giving his invaluable feedback to the engineers I can't see how the car is the problem. Of course Mclaren has made improvements but they are not that far ahead. The problem is the drivers, Kimi who doesn't care and Massa who can only get it together at 3 -4 tracks a season. Couple that with the inexperience of the pit wall crew who make strategy mistakes, Ferrari need to get it together and fast. Why the hell didn't they make Ross Brawn team principal!


The problem with that is that Schumacher is out the loop now - F1 technologically advances a lot in 18 months! They only got him in to test slick tyres and cars without TC because he has had experience of F1 with/without those things, whereas most drivers now haven't.

And who says Brawn would've wanted to go back anyway! :wink:
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By bud
#56481
Quite frankly I am bewildered by the team's race performance as of late. I'm gonna take a stab, ya I like stabbing :wink::wink:, at what I think might be an issue. Kimi and Felipe need to do ALOT more testing aka Schumacher style and then they will have a better grasp on setting up the car for a dominant race setup and not just qualifying.


they were both at the last test and both have tested at most of the tests this year.

Kimi had 2 days of testing at Hockenheim while Massa only had 1 added to the GP weekend Massa had less running at the track than Kimi and still got more out of the car.

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