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#54974
Well ok, Thats your opinion but I would debate that. Equal maybe but not above.
That reply was to DD not McLarenfan


And why don't you respond to McLarenFan's insulting remark? Insulting to EVERY other team principal! Nickel and diming about equal or not, but letting slide such a general slap in everybody's face seems odd.


I think a reply i made didnt post( :rolleyes: typical) But I think Pat Symmons also has absolute integrity and I also think FW would have. I know the other guy MT less well but have no reason to believe otherwise of him. I think the thing that is annoying is that RD has his integrity questioned and that infuriates people and makes them respond aggresively.
#54976
Well ok, Thats your opinion but I would debate that. Equal maybe but not above.
That reply was to DD not McLarenfan


And why don't you respond to McLarenFan's insulting remark? Insulting to EVERY other team principal! Nickel and diming about equal or not, but letting slide such a general slap in everybody's face seems odd.


I think a reply i made didnt post( :rolleyes: typical) But I think Pat Symmons also has absolute integrity and I also think FW would have. I know the other guy MT less well but have no reason to believe otherwise of him. I think the thing that is annoying is that RD has his integrity questioned and that infuriates people and makes them respond aggresively.


Good on you and yes, Pat is a good chap as well. I don't know SD well enough yet, so withhold judgment.
Just a reminder: it was a McLaren supporter who opened this Pandora's box by making an unfounded claim that also infuriates people.
#54978
SD seems the most resonable guy in Ferrari for a long while but i also will withnold judgement for a while. :)
#54979
I just said in response to racechick that he has integrity, but that I rate other's integrity higher than his. You on the other hand discredited EVERY other team principal with your insulting statement that insinuated that, e.g., PS or MT or FW have less integrity than your beloved RD. Now THAT's unfair and all I wanted with my initial response was to point this out to you! If you throw such bombs out there, don't expect it not to backfire!

I was not talking about them. In fact, I've a hell of a lot of time for those three people, and many others in Formula One. Without getting into the semantics and pedantics of the matter, you were being your usual anti-Ron Dennis self. Saying Dennis has integrity - but less than others - is a convenient piece of phraseology.


I think he has more integrity than any other team principal

How else is one to interpret this than that you were talking about every team principal incl. the ones I listed??? :yikes:
#54981
SD seems the most resonable guy in Ferrari for a long while but i also will withnold judgement for a while. :)


He seems a bit bland, not much character - I want to see him in an extreme situation, that's when we get a better idea of how his brain works. We had a little insight early in the season when he had to defend Ferrari's lackluster performance and also after the Silverstone GP when he was quite honest about the screw-ups in the team. So far so good on him.
#54983
It still baffles me that McLaren supporters still defend Ron Dennis.

The guy doesn't have an honest bone in his body and 2007 proved that.

youre talking sh!t
#54985
I think he has more integrity than any other team principal

I don't remember saying that and couldn't find it in my posts using the search function. Can you please show me where you found it?

It still baffles me that McLaren supporters still defend Ron Dennis.

The guy doesn't have an honest bone in his body and 2007 proved that.

You are one arrogant shit-stirrer.
Last edited by McLaren Fan on 12 Jul 08, 23:18, edited 1 time in total.
#54987
I think he has more integrity than any other team principal

I don't remember saying that and have couldn't find it in my posts using the search function. Can you please show me where you found it?

It still baffles me that McLaren supporters still defend Ron Dennis.

The guy doesn't have an honest bone in his body and 2007 proved that.

You are one arrogant s***-stirrer.


You're right, that was actually 8-ball who said it to whom I responded, after which you posted in response. My apologies. Too many [quote][quote][quote]
#54989
I think he has more integrity than any other team principal

I don't remember saying that and have couldn't find it in my posts using the search function. Can you please show me where you found it?

It still baffles me that McLaren supporters still defend Ron Dennis.

The guy doesn't have an honest bone in his body and 2007 proved that.

You are one arrogant s***-stirrer.


You're right, that was actually 8-ball who said it to whom I responded, after which you posted in response. My apologies. Too many

No worries, DD. :thumbup:
#54991
British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'


Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...
#54993
British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'


Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...


A bit harsh :D
#54995
British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'


Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...


A bit harsh :D


Sometimes I wonder if I really hate Ron and Lewis because if they keep going at the rate they are going they are going to break Schumi's records in F1. But that's me being a very big person and trying to understand why I hate them so much.

Then I think about 2007 and how much Lewis reminds me of Ron with his 'Ronspeak Jnr 2000' implant and I think I would feel the same even if I wasn't a Schumacher disciple.

Even though it's very cliche'd for a Schumacher supporter to hate McLaren so much...
#54997
British GP, 2007, Ron Dennis, I quote:

'I live and breathe this team. There is no way anything incorrect would ever happen in our team. My personal integrity is very important to me and my company's integrity is even more important to me. We are working closely with the FIA and closely with Ferrari. This matter does not involve our company.'

'I am absolutely confident that with the passing of time, the world will understand that McLaren's position is one that is reflective of our statements. We have never, to my knowledge, ever used other people's intellectual property. It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm.'


Those words came back to haunt Ron, in December he issued a grovelling apology which revealed the full extent of the Ferrari information infiltration. Not only on the car that won 8 races in 2007, but the MP-23, the car that was being constructed for 2008.

This is from a team that was noted for it's immaculate and unimpeachable image, it's integrity was ripped apart.

Either Dennis knew about it or it was a display of poor administrative control by Dennis, Whitmarsh and Neale. How could the right hand be so unaware of what the left hand was doing?

Most think the FIA's pummeling of McLaren was merciless, this apology showed the FIA were completely justified in their actions.

McLaren did once have a proud record in formula one however the spy scandal completely destroyed their reputation as a team and brought the entire sport into disrepute.

The fact you can still support Ron Dennis with such passion is beyond words, he is both deceptive and incompetent beyond all measure...


Ron Dennis was wrong, but not dishonest. It's not dishonest if you do not know, which he didn't. The McLaren Group is a big organisation with many different subgroups, of which McLaren Racing is only one. To handle such a company, responsibilities are devolved to certain groups and people throughout it. Similar things happen in other companies. If one of the foot soldiers are rogue, how the hell is the general going know? Put simply, he can't. Jonathan Neale, one of the sergeants, if you like, carrying on the military metaphor, thought he had the problem with Coughlan solved. He did not, however, for Coughlan went behind McLaren's back.

Perhaps you need reminded of the findings of the FIA's report on the spy scandal. As I've told you before, the FIA found there was no Ferrari intellectual data on the MP4-22, although two components possibly found their way onto the MP4-23. That doesn't seem to have permeated into your thick head as yet.

Never mind McLaren bringing Formula One into disrepute, the FIA do that themselves, with their cosy relations with Ferrari, bungling one rule change after another, allowing a Nazi for a President (who's breaking his own two-term limit legislation) to stay, their nefarious practices to ensure title battles go to the last race of the season, and completely screwing-up sorting out the spy scandal.
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