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[texasmr2]

KyrosV, how are Renault finding McLaren's J-Damper this season?

i hate hearing these armchair experts proclaim McLaren were lucky to be in it at all...

as for not allowing them to make developments that is the most obsurd thing i have heard on this forum and thats a forum where we have mikep and texasmr2 commenting on



just teasing mike and gregg

Your punishment/pleasure will be staying in MY tent next year!!

[8-ball]

Mercedes is McLaren they are the largest share holder

That is correct. And when eventually Mercedes owns all of McLaren, what will happen next? Mercedes like Toyota, Honda, BMW (Its German rival), Renault and Ferrari are want to going to race as themselves. Ie MERCEDES, not McLAREN-MERCEDES. Also when they win races, for the constructors point of you, Mercedes are going to want to her the "Lied von Deutschland" not "God Save the Queen". This is a fact. Germans want German domination. The only way to achieve this is to when Mercedes fully aquires McLaren, to rename the team to Mercedes and then get a German racing licence instead of a British one. The team would likely still remaing Woking based however. This is what happened to Benetton when it ws aquired by Renault. Team is renamed to Renault, a French licence replaces the Italian one from old team Benetton, but team remains British based. Same is the case with BMW. Sauber is Swiss and team still based in Switzerland, but team nationality (BMW) is German as they have a German racing licenece. The same example can also be given with Honda based also in Britain and Toyota which is based in Germany. Both team nationalities are Japanese.

Don't bother KyrosV, they just don't get it.

If they can't blame the way the FIA handled the case they'll point the finger at other teams and then they'll say it was really Ferrari's fault in the first place...

Even after their team boss came out and apologised they would suggest you should "read between the lines" because that's not what was really going on...

Save your energy mate, this attitude flows down from Ron Dennis' 'holier than thou' attitude, all the lambs follow suit...

None of what happened last year was Ferrari's fault. It is entirely Mclaren who are to blame thanks to a rogue employee but no way does Ron have a holier than thou attitude. I think he has more integrity than any other team principal and is willing to admit his mistakes. I'm a Ferrari fan but would rather work for Ron Dennis than Jean Todt.

[darwin dali]

None of what happened last year was Ferrari's fault. It is entirely Mclaren who are to blame thanks to a rogue employee but no way does Ron have a holier than thou attitude. I think he has more integrity than any other team principal and is willing to admit his mistakes. I'm a Ferrari fan but would rather work for Ron Dennis than Jean Todt.

I rate Peter Sauber and Mario Theissen or even Frank Williams way higher in terms of integrity than RD.

[McLaren Fan]

None of what happened last year was Ferrari's fault. It is entirely Mclaren who are to blame thanks to a rogue employee but no way does Ron have a holier than thou attitude. I think he has more integrity than any other team principal and is willing to admit his mistakes. I'm a Ferrari fan but would rather work for Ron Dennis than Jean Todt.

I rate Peter Sauber and Mario Theissen or even Frank Williams way higher in terms of integrity than RD.

Well, you would say that. Everybody on this forum knows you have some hidden agenda or grudge against Ron Dennis.

[darwin dali]

None of what happened last year was Ferrari's fault. It is entirely Mclaren who are to blame thanks to a rogue employee but no way does Ron have a holier than thou attitude. I think he has more integrity than any other team principal and is willing to admit his mistakes. I'm a Ferrari fan but would rather work for Ron Dennis than Jean Todt.

I rate Peter Sauber and Mario Theissen or even Frank Williams way higher in terms of integrity than RD.

Well, you would say that. Everybody on this forum knows you have some hidden agenda or grudge against Ron Dennis.

My apologies, I forgot that your opinion that RD has more integrity than ANY other team principal is completely objective and free of bias.

[McLaren Fan]

None of what happened last year was Ferrari's fault. It is entirely Mclaren who are to blame thanks to a rogue employee but no way does Ron have a holier than thou attitude. I think he has more integrity than any other team principal and is willing to admit his mistakes. I'm a Ferrari fan but would rather work for Ron Dennis than Jean Todt.

I rate Peter Sauber and Mario Theissen or even Frank Williams way higher in terms of integrity than RD.

Well, you would say that. Everybody on this forum knows you have some hidden agenda or grudge against Ron Dennis.

My apologies, I forgot that your opinion that RD has more integrity than ANY other team principal is completely objective and free of bias.

Did I ever say that? No, in fact, I outlined my views on Ron Dennis and McLaren on this forum before. You portray yourself as the man of reason on this forum, and you normally are, but when it comes to Ron Dennis or McLaren, that faculty seems to desert you.

[racechick]

KyrosV, how are Renault finding McLaren's information this season, for instance, the J-Damper?

as quoted before "what J-damper, Ive never heard of one of them"

You are a hypocritical b astard. You come on here posting your holier-than-thou anti-McLaren sentiments, and claiming that McLaren got off lightly, but snigger at how your own team, despite being ten-times more in the wrong than McLaren were, got let off. You make me sick, but I shall not worry too much about it. Whilst your beloved Renault are being taken ride for Alonso - but still begging for him to stay - and competing in the middle of the grid, McLaren will be winning races and championships.

Yup. McLarenFan is right here. Renault cheated way worse, got off scott free but are now doing crap.

[darwin dali]

None of what happened last year was Ferrari's fault. It is entirely Mclaren who are to blame thanks to a rogue employee but no way does Ron have a holier than thou attitude. I think he has more integrity than any other team principal and is willing to admit his mistakes. I'm a Ferrari fan but would rather work for Ron Dennis than Jean Todt.

I rate Peter Sauber and Mario Theissen or even Frank Williams way higher in terms of integrity than RD.

Well, you would say that. Everybody on this forum knows you have some hidden agenda or grudge against Ron Dennis.

My apologies, I forgot that your opinion that RD has more integrity than ANY other team principal is completely objective and free of bias.

Did I ever say that? No, in fact, I outlined my views on Ron Dennis and McLaren on this forum before. You portray yourself as the man of reason on this forum, and you normally are, but when it comes to Ron Dennis or McLaren, that faculty seems to desert you.

The emoticon should have been a pointer for ya: I was being sarcastic and simply saying that you're opinion is totally subjective and biased as well - duh! Don't try to make this something about reason

[racechick]

But integrity is important to Ron Dennis, above a lot of other things, and when peolpe suggest he doesnt have it, or will compromise on it, really is infuriating.

[darwin dali]

But integrity is important to Ron Dennis, above a lot of other things, and when peolpe suggest he doesnt have it, or will compromise on it, really is infuriating.

I didn't say he doesn't have integrity, I just rate other's integrity higher.

[McLaren Fan]

The emoticon should have been a pointer for ya: I was being sarcastic and simply saying that you're opinion is totally subjective and biased as well - duh! Don't try to make this something about reason

I'm biased, yes, but I think that there are different levels of bias. As much as I love McLaren, I'm not afraid to stick the boot into the team when I think they are doing things wrongly. There are times as well that you have to admit the team were in the wrong, and, as much as it pains me, I'm willing to do it. I also give a lot of credit when it's due to McLaren's competitors, even though I may not like one or two of them in particular. When it comes to Ron Dennis, DD, there is none of that from you. Your posts on this forum show that you can see no good in him or wish to see no good in him for some unknown reason. Today, you can't even credit the man for his honesty, something many of his detractors have done. Dennis has his flaws, yes, but your views of him are unfair.

[racechick]

Well ok, Thats your opinion but I would debate that. Equal maybe but not above.
That reply was to DD not McLarenfan

[darwin dali]

The emoticon should have been a pointer for ya: I was being sarcastic and simply saying that you're opinion is totally subjective and biased as well - duh! Don't try to make this something about reason

I'm biased, yes, but I think that there are different levels of bias. As much as I love McLaren, I'm not afraid to stick the boot into the team when I think they are doing things wrongly. There are times as well that you have to admit the team were in the wrong, and, as much as it pains me, I'm willing to do it. I also give a lot of credit when it's due to McLaren's competitors, even though I may not like one or two of them in particular. When it comes to Ron Dennis, DD, there is none of that from you. Your posts on this forum show that you can see no good in him or wish to see no good in him for some unknown reason. Today, you can't even credit the man for his honesty, something many of his detractors have done. Dennis has his flaws, yes, but your views of him are unfair.

I just said in response to racechick that he has integrity, but that I rate other's integrity higher than his. You on the other hand discredited EVERY other team principal with your insulting statement that insinuated that, e.g., PS or MT or FW have less integrity than your beloved RD. Now THAT's unfair and all I wanted with my initial response was to point this out to you! If you throw such bombs out there, don't expect it not to backfire!

[darwin dali]

Well ok, Thats your opinion but I would debate that. Equal maybe but not above.
That reply was to DD not McLarenfan

And why don't you respond to McLarenFan's insulting remark? Insulting to EVERY other team principal! Nickel and diming about equal or not, but letting slide such a general slap in everybody's face seems odd.

[McLaren Fan]

I just said in response to racechick that he has integrity, but that I rate other's integrity higher than his. You on the other hand discredited EVERY other team principal with your insulting statement that insinuated that, e.g., PS or MT or FW have less integrity than your beloved RD. Now THAT's unfair and all I wanted with my initial response was to point this out to you! If you throw such bombs out there, don't expect it not to backfire!

I was not talking about them. In fact, I've a hell of a lot of time for those three people, and many others in Formula One. Without getting into the semantics and pedantics of the matter, you were being your usual anti-Ron Dennis self. Saying Dennis has integrity - but less than others - is a convenient piece of phraseology.