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[al4x]

just like it was lewis fault last race for throwing it away last race it was ferraris fault for a poor decision on kimis car, and massa car, wtf was with that?

Massa was a little pathetic today, I really do like the guy but he got so pissed just because Glock made a hand signal to him, and so Timo should he was LAPPING him for goodness sake, but I suppose Felipe couldn't handle the fact that he is last and a Toyota is lapping him

the last corner was so bad, you could see there was nothing he could do, to sharp throttle setup i expect,

and the glock thing was a bit cheeky, if i were timo id remember that the next times massa wants him to pull over!

[scotty]

Felipe Massa is an absolute joke, last in the best car and it's completely his own fault.

Massa is not that bad. He clearly did not have enough downforce. If Schumi had still been driving, he wouldn't have let Massa go out there with such an appalling setup.

Come on man, Schumacher is retired and long gone now, so who cares what he might have done. Massa must be a pretty piss poor driver if he can't make correct setup decisions on his own though.

Raikkonen had a few offs today and got screwed massively after his first stop but still finished 4th... underlining the difference in ability between the two. If Massa doesn't have the car perfectly suited to him he's nowhere - Raikkonen can drive around his problems and still grind out results.

[Denthúl]

just like it was lewis fault last race for throwing it away last race it was ferraris fault for a poor decision on kimis car, and massa car, wtf was with that?

I'd guess insufficient downforce for the wet conditions. Some of Schumi's most masterful wins were pretty much decided before the race started by having the appropriate setup. Spain '96.

Not downforce. I think they'd set it up to have a little too much acceleration for the wet conditions, because you could see that as he applied more throttle on the straights he was spinning.

[FerrariFan63]

mate, none of the cars on the grid would have been setup for the wet, they were in in dry Qualifying spec.... do you not know the rules of parc ferme??

I know the rules of parc ferme. I also know that if you have a car with a few more turns of downforce than others, you can make up places in a wet race. It's a gamble because you can't predict the weather for the next day, but you can still choose compromise settings. You then lose some places in qualifying, but gain them in the race. You don't need a full wet setup, you just need a setup a bit more appropriate for the conditions than your competitors.

[FerrariFan63]

just like it was lewis fault last race for throwing it away last race it was ferraris fault for a poor decision on kimis car, and massa car, wtf was with that?

I'd guess insufficient downforce for the wet conditions. Some of Schumi's most masterful wins were pretty much decided before the race started by having the appropriate setup. Spain '96.

Not downforce. I think they'd set it up to have a little too much acceleration for the wet conditions, because you could see that as he applied more throttle on the straights he was spinning.

Thank you for posting a proper reply to one of my posts.

Yes, that's highly plausible.

[scotty]

just like it was lewis fault last race for throwing it away last race it was ferraris fault for a poor decision on kimis car, and massa car, wtf was with that?

I'd guess insufficient downforce for the wet conditions. Some of Schumi's most masterful wins were pretty much decided before the race started by having the appropriate setup. Spain '96.

Not downforce. I think they'd set it up to have a little too much acceleration for the wet conditions, because you could see that as he applied more throttle on the straights he was spinning.

Massa has a rep for poor throttle control though, he used to completely rely on the traction control, at times this season he's seemed a bit screwed without it

[Denthúl]

True enough, Scotty, but you could hear how gentle he was being. I'm surprised they didn't have the Throttle/Brake meters up on the screen for that one.

[FerrariFan63]

Come on man, Schumacher is retired and long gone now, so who cares what he might have done. Massa must be a pretty piss poor driver if he can't make correct setup decisions on his own though.

It is relevant to consider what he might have done when conducting a postmortem on Ferrari's performance. As it is discussing whether Ross Brawn would have made such a poor tyre choice. Which he probably wouldn't have given that RB seemed to be the only driver who was on the right tyres for much of the race.

Raikkonen had a few offs today and got screwed massively after his first stop but still finished 4th... underlining the difference in ability between the two. If Massa doesn't have the car perfectly suited to him he's nowhere - Raikkonen can drive around his problems and still grind out results.

Massa is inconsistent, yes. But he's driven enough good races to show that he does have ability. Something was almost certainly wrong with the setup of his car.

[al4x]

hmm, surely he coulnt be that bad, unless his foot is either on or off the pedal,

thats what it looked like there was either too much acceleration or none, surely it was the setup tho

[dant]

With Massa today it wasnt like he was just flooring it at every oppertunity, it was just the slightest bit of throttle and the back end was gone, not like im bothered though, there is nothing finer than seeing a Ferrari going round, back end first.

[Hanwombat]

just like it was lewis fault last race for throwing it away last race it was ferraris fault for a poor decision on kimis car, and massa car, wtf was with that?

Massa was a little pathetic today, I really do like the guy but he got so pissed just because Glock made a hand signal to him, and so Timo should he was LAPPING him for goodness sake, but I suppose Felipe couldn't handle the fact that he is last and a Toyota is lapping him

the last corner was so bad, you could see there was nothing he could do, to sharp throttle setup i expect,

and the glock thing was a bit cheeky, if i were timo id remember that the next times massa wants him to pull over!

yup

[dant]

just like it was lewis fault last race for throwing it away last race it was ferraris fault for a poor decision on kimis car, and massa car, wtf was with that?

Massa was a little pathetic today, I really do like the guy but he got so pissed just because Glock made a hand signal to him, and so Timo should he was LAPPING him for goodness sake, but I suppose Felipe couldn't handle the fact that he is last and a Toyota is lapping him

the last corner was so bad, you could see there was nothing he could do, to sharp throttle setup i expect,

and the glock thing was a bit cheeky, if i were timo id remember that the next times massa wants him to pull over!

yup

But you can more or less guarentee that if that happens at any race in the future the stewards would be on Timo's case in no time,biased to bigger teams all the way.

[scotty]

Raikkonen had a few offs today and got screwed massively after his first stop but still finished 4th... underlining the difference in ability between the two. If Massa doesn't have the car perfectly suited to him he's nowhere - Raikkonen can drive around his problems and still grind out results.

Massa is inconsistent, yes. But he's driven enough good races to show that he does have ability. Something was almost certainly wrong with the setup of his car.

Yes, but that's my point - he can only win when everything is in place for him to do so. I can't imagine him coming from way down the grid to take victory, or winning despite having an inferior car.

Come on man, Schumacher is retired and long gone now, so who cares what he might have done. Massa must be a pretty piss poor driver if he can't make correct setup decisions on his own though.

It is relevant to consider what he might have done when conducting a postmortem on Ferrari's performance. As it is discussing whether Ross Brawn would have made such a poor tyre choice. Which he probably wouldn't have given that RB seemed to be the only driver who was on the right tyres for much of the race.

Sorry, i just don't see how it's relevant. I think they were taking a gamble, hoping the rain wouldn't be too bad. They obviously were unlucky, just as Honda were right to gamble on using the full wets later in the race. You win some, you lose some, simple as.

True enough, Scotty, but you could hear how gentle he was being. I'm surprised they didn't have the Throttle/Brake meters up on the screen for that one.

Hmm, well i guess there was that one time where he basically span/aquaplaned on the straight (leading to Maggots and Becketts i think it is). What happened to those graphics anyway? Haven't seen them in ages it seems.

[FerrariFan63]

Sorry, i just don't see how it's relevant. I think they were taking a gamble, hoping the rain wouldn't be too bad. They obviously were unlucky, just as Honda were right to gamble on using the full wets later in the race. You win some, you lose some, simple as.

All else being equal, the truly brilliant will win more than the just ordinary, even when predictions can't be made with certainty. In any area of human life, dealing with uncertainty is very important. "You make your own luck" is a very crude way of describing this.

[Rivelution]

Wow what a race!! The race is on the last 4 laps because its tape delayed over here. But man what a shame for Heikki and Mark, I was really hopeful for Mark and he drove really well after that spin but we never heard from him after the 2nd half of the race. Nick Heidfeld drove outstanding with 2 double passes and hopefully this shuts his critics up for awhile, his time will come soon and he will get his first win.

Barrichello!!!! Man that was awesome!! A little dissapointed because he could've had a 2nd place finish, but hey, Honda made the podium considering they have such a horrible car. That decision to go to extreme wets was the winning choice as he was lapping almost 7 seconds faster than everyone else. I'm pretty sure Ross Brawn had something to do with that decision, and this is a huge step forward for Honda.