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[EwanM]

Ok, lots of bashing here. remember McL is not just LH.
So here's the test:- Which TEAM do you REALLY think will score most points @ Silverstone?
Ferrari
McL
BMW
Other
After much thought I think that it will be very close between F & McL but I just come down on the side of McL

Ferrari will score the most points, unless it's wet or their cars fail

[Denthúl]

Ok, lots of bashing here. remember McL is not just LH.
So here's the test:- Which TEAM do you REALLY think will score most points @ Silverstone?
Ferrari
McL
BMW
Other
After much thought I think that it will be very close between F & McL but I just come down on the side of McL

Ferrari, unless Heidfeld pulls out a good performance. BMW should set his tyres on fire during his out-laps so that they're warm enough for him to get a good hot-lap in.

[al4x]

its quotes like this, first post, that where you have to go

tbh i think ferrari will have it, and its not the talk to get the public 'back on side' is it?

[racechick]

I see...

Lewis is better than Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher... combined...

Well, James Allen seems to think so...

Better than Michael...not propaganda.
Better than Ayrton? Now how many people do i want to p!ss off??

Only those who still take you seriously (anybody out there?)

Whilst everyone waits with bated breath for you latest pearls of wisdom

[7UpJordan]

Ok, lots of bashing here. remember McL is not just LH.
So here's the test:- Which TEAM do you REALLY think will score most points @ Silverstone?
Ferrari
McL
BMW
Other
After much thought I think that it will be very close between F & McL but I just come down on the side of McL

Ferrari, unless Heidfeld pulls out a good performance. BMW should set his tyres on fire during his out-laps so that they're warm enough for him to get a good hot-lap in.

I think he'll struggle even worse this time because it's the harder tyres too, so looks like he could be for the chop in Q2.

[nikon133]

I see...

Lewis is better than Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher... combined...

Well, James Allen seems to think so...

Better than Michael...not propaganda.
Better than Ayrton? Now how many people do i want to p!ss off??

Only those who still take you seriously (anybody out there?)

Whilst everyone waits with bated breath for you latest pearls of wisdom

Why, thanks! (I'll pretend I haven't noticed sarcasm )

I'm really sorry that I pi*sed you off so hard, RC I'll try to be more careful when expressing my opinion on Lewis.

That aside, no matter how much I dislike MS, I am actually considering him better than Senna - simply based on the results. Only thing he missed to "achieve" is to get killed behind the wheel, thus he'll never have that extra feeling/respect Senna memories are generating, but he did achieve more than Senna. Yeah he was protected in Ferrari, but then again he managed to bring Ferrari back from the land of the dead... Senna's golden age was in dominant McLaren, he didn't really have to reinvent them as Schumacher did with Ferrari. Just my humble opinion.

Lewis? He has to prove better than likes of Kimi and Massa first. Once he manages to beat "minors", he can apply for big league... until then, he is just a talented kid with potential and an attitude problem.

[texasmr2]

That aside, no matter how much I dislike MS, I am actually considering him better than Senna - simply based on the results. Only thing he missed to "achieve" is to get killed behind the wheel...

Dude that is so cold and so uncalled for! I can respect someone else's opinion but when they say like that you lose alot of credibility.

Senna's golden age was in dominant McLaren, he didn't really have to reinvent them as Schumacher did with Ferrari. Just my humble opinion.

That I can agree with but wow what a ride it was!!

[bud]

Senna's golden age was in dominant McLaren, he didn't really have to reinvent them as Schumacher did with Ferrari. Just my humble opinion.

well you could say that he did bring Honda along with him from Lotus then you could add he had to go against a multiple world champ as a team mate so i wouldnt say he had it served to him on a platter, quite the contrary Schumi's results that impress you were
and whats with this reinventing BS? so what he could throw $$$ around to his old teams main technical guys that aint hard.

[texasmr2]

Senna's golden age was in dominant McLaren, he didn't really have to reinvent them as Schumacher did with Ferrari. Just my humble opinion.

well you could say that he did bring Honda along with him from Lotus then you could add he had to go against a multiple world champ as a team mate so i wouldnt say he had it served to him on a platter, quite the contrary Schumi's results that impress you were
and whats with this reinventing BS? so what he could throw $$$ around to his old teams main technical guys that aint hard.

Everyone should STOP right here with all the Schumacher patrionage because bud will shoot down your belief's or opinion's with his FACTS!

[bud]

beliefs vs facts

[nikon133]

That aside, no matter how much I dislike MS, I am actually considering him better than Senna - simply based on the results. Only thing he missed to "achieve" is to get killed behind the wheel...

Dude that is so cold and so uncalled for! I can respect someone else's opinion but when they say like that you lose alot of credibility.

Senna's golden age was in dominant McLaren, he didn't really have to reinvent them as Schumacher did with Ferrari. Just my humble opinion.

That I can agree with but wow what a ride it was!!

Looking at my previous post, it does look harsh - sorry for that; I'm writing some of my posts in the short breaks during my work, so usually I don't have much time to put some extra effort.

What I wanted to say is - his tragic death is adding extra bigger-than-life factor to his aura.

If, by any chance, he has decided to retire before that fatal season I honestly believe he would not affect F1 followers nowadays the way he does. He would still be great Senna, but on a different level; being a fallen, tragic hero always has much stronger impact than being just a retired hero.

[nikon133]

Senna's golden age was in dominant McLaren, he didn't really have to reinvent them as Schumacher did with Ferrari. Just my humble opinion.

well you could say that he did bring Honda along with him from Lotus then you could add he had to go against a multiple world champ as a team mate so i wouldnt say he had it served to him on a platter, quite the contrary Schumi's results that impress you were
and whats with this reinventing BS? so what he could throw $$$ around to his old teams main technical guys that aint hard.

Hm... I think Prost took just one title while he was Senna's teammate in McLaren. Without Prost, that would be Senna's 4th.

It is still far-cry from Michael's 7.

Of course, things might have - probably would have - been different if McLaren Honda managed to keep their superiority. Well, they haven't. Another thing is, McLaren was already strong when Senna joined them, having won '85 and '86 with Prost. There was no reason to reinvent, to rebuild McLaren. Honda engines have brought extra performance, but McLaren was far from poor without them at the time.

On the other side, MS came in much more mediocre Ferrari. He didn't bring any hardware with him, but he did bring Ross Brown... some other people, I believe. What he managed to do with Ferrari was magic. I don't like him at all, but I can't deny him that.

Now... we can go on and on about how much of that was Schumacher's doing. Would any other decent driver be able to achieve the same? Was he just lucky to be in Benetton and move to Ferrari at the best possible moments? What would Senna achieve if McLaren, say, managed to put their hands on Renault engines once they turned out to be best in the field?

There are so many ifs and so many alternative outcomes, but in this reality, Schumacher took 7 titles (score no-one will challenge for years, if ever), gave 5 consecutive titles to Ferrari (after they experienced 16 fruitless constructor years and 21 dry driver years) and left Ferrari strong enough to keep challenging and winning.

I'm sorry to say, guys, but that is one tough score to beat. And that is reality we live in.

[texasmr2]

bud I apologize because I could have and should have worded my reply in a more constructive way. What I meant to say was how do you know this as a fact?

so what he could throw $$$ around to his old teams main technical guys that aint hard.

What I wanted to say is - his tragic death is adding extra bigger-than-life factor to his aura.

If, by any chance, he has decided to retire before that fatal season I honestly believe he would not affect F1 followers nowadays the way he does. He would still be great Senna, but on a different level; being a fallen, tragic hero always has much stronger impact than being just a retired hero.

Yes being a fallen hero does add to ones mystique and thank you for the clarification.

[texasmr2]

Senna's golden age was in dominant McLaren, he didn't really have to reinvent them as Schumacher did with Ferrari. Just my humble opinion.

well you could say that he did bring Honda along with him from Lotus then you could add he had to go against a multiple world champ as a team mate so i wouldnt say he had it served to him on a platter, quite the contrary Schumi's results that impress you were
and whats with this reinventing BS? so what he could throw $$$ around to his old teams main technical guys that aint hard.

Hm... I think Prost took just one title while he was Senna's teammate in McLaren. Without Prost, that would be Senna's 4th.

It is still far-cry from Michael's 7.

Of course, things might have - probably would have - been different if McLaren Honda managed to keep their superiority. Well, they haven't. Another thing is, McLaren was already strong when Senna joined them, having won '85 and '86 with Prost. There was no reason to reinvent, to rebuild McLaren. Honda engines have brought extra performance, but McLaren was far from poor without them at the time.

On the other side, MS came in much more mediocre Ferrari. He didn't bring any hardware with him, but he did bring Ross Brown... some other people, I believe. What he managed to do with Ferrari was magic. I don't like him at all, but I can't deny him that.

Now... we can go on and on about how much of that was Schumacher's doing. Would any other decent driver be able to achieve the same? Was he just lucky to be in Benetton and move to Ferrari at the best possible moments? What would Senna achieve if McLaren, say, managed to put their hands on Renault engines once they turned out to be best in the field?

There are so many ifs and so many alternative outcomes, but in this reality, Schumacher took 7 titles (score no-one will challenge for years, if ever), gave 5 consecutive titles to Ferrari (after they experienced 16 fruitless constructor years and 21 dry driver years) and left Ferrari strong enough to keep challenging and winning.

I'm sorry to say, guys, but that is one tough score to beat. And that is reality we live in.

[bud]

Senna's golden age was in dominant McLaren, he didn't really have to reinvent them as Schumacher did with Ferrari. Just my humble opinion.

well you could say that he did bring Honda along with him from Lotus then you could add he had to go against a multiple world champ as a team mate so i wouldnt say he had it served to him on a platter, quite the contrary Schumi's results that impress you were
and whats with this reinventing BS? so what he could throw $$$ around to his old teams main technical guys that aint hard.

Hm... I think Prost took just one title while he was Senna's teammate in McLaren. Without Prost, that would be Senna's 4th.

It is still far-cry from Michael's 7.

Of course, things might have - probably would have - been different if McLaren Honda managed to keep their superiority. Well, they haven't. Another thing is, McLaren was already strong when Senna joined them, having won '85 and '86 with Prost. There was no reason to reinvent, to rebuild McLaren. Honda engines have brought extra performance, but McLaren was far from poor without them at the time.

On the other side, MS came in much more mediocre Ferrari. He didn't bring any hardware with him, but he did bring Ross Brown... some other people, I believe. What he managed to do with Ferrari was magic. I don't like him at all, but I can't deny him that.

Now... we can go on and on about how much of that was Schumacher's doing. Would any other decent driver be able to achieve the same? Was he just lucky to be in Benetton and move to Ferrari at the best possible moments? What would Senna achieve if McLaren, say, managed to put their hands on Renault engines once they turned out to be best in the field?

There are so many ifs and so many alternative outcomes, but in this reality, Schumacher took 7 titles (score no-one will challenge for years, if ever), gave 5 consecutive titles to Ferrari (after they experienced 16 fruitless constructor years and 21 dry driver years) and left Ferrari strong enough to keep challenging and winning.

I'm sorry to say, guys, but that is one tough score to beat. And that is reality we live in.

youre forgetting the Benetton cheif designer Rory Byrne who was a main ingredient in Ferrari's turn around like i said its easy when Ferrari are offering the $$$$ to bring virtually the same championship winning team that Benetton had to Ferrari. If Schumi had stayed where he was i am sure he would have had just as many world titles!