FORUMula1.com

[McLaren Fan]

What seem's to me and is the most frustrating, and really pisses me off, if the idea that the McLaren fan's statement's, and posting of link's from another website, are cemented fact's!

Clarify what you mean by that please.

[darwin dali]

What DID Ferrari say that makes you qualify it with whatever the f*** they wanted to say with total impunity??

In the spy scandal last year, for example, Ferrari conducted an absolutely reprehensible, amateurish media smear campaign against McLaren, which was extremely liberal with the truth. Conversely, McLaren got a footnote wrong in their version of events in the Renault spy case, but had cruise missiles of criticism from the FIA and were told to change this particular insignificant point. So, it's one rule for Ferrari and another rule for everybody else.

That's very debatable (and we've spent blood and sweat in the past 9 months or so on that ) - I maintain that they had a justifiable reason to go public with it and try to control the damage to their operation that McLaren's unethical behavior following the betrayal of Stepney caused. Had McLaren reacted in a sporting way, Stepney's deeds would have been a footnote in F1's history books and McLaren could have won the constructors' title last year.

[texasmr2]

What seem's to me and is the most frustrating, and really pisses me off, if the idea that the McLaren fan's statement's, and posting of link's from another website, are cemented fact's!

Clarify what you mean by that please.

How could I not be any more clear than what I said?

[McLaren Fan]

But MF, all that's only true from a certain point of view. For the same reason that the hugely dedicated Ferrari fans might be very willing to see wrong in McLaren's actions and right in Ferrari's, you're very willing to do the inverse. You even mention at the end that you "wouldn't expect [the] Tifosi to understand". Obviously, one infers because they're biased. But so are you in that case, you can't have double standards about this, you're just biased the other way. There isn't anything wrong with bias as long as its acknowledged, bias is the basis of all opinion. What you can't do is state your opinion on events as fact and disdainfully dismiss the opinion of those with a different point of view.

It may come as a surprise to you and others, but I like to think I try to be impartial. As I've said before, long before I was on this forum, I had a hell of a lot negative comments about how McLaren was run from c.2001. The reason my posts on the spy scandal seem so biased is because the much of issue was used against McLaren to settle personal vendettas and political scores. I think I've already proven that over these past months; the example of Ferrari's media slur campaign and Renault and Toyota's lack of punishment will suffice for this thread.

That's very debatable (and we've spent blood and sweat in the past 9 months or so on that ) - I maintain that they had a justifiable reason to go public with it and try to control the damage to their operation that McLaren's unethical behavior following the betrayal of Stepney caused. Had McLaren reacted in a sporting way, Stepney's deeds would have been a footnote in F1's history books and McLaren could have won the constructors' title last year.

I wold have had no issues with Ferrari going public, so long as they did it in an appropriate and professional manner. Ferrari, for example, completely exaggerated the spy scandal and the team's levels of involvement in it. I've never disputed that McLaren could perhaps have done things differently with the benefit of hindsight, but look at it from team's point of view back in March. McLaren have been calling for more money to be given to the teams and talking up the prospect of a breakaway series. The FIA are not pleased with that, but on top of that, Ron Dennis and Max Mosley don't get along. And that's before you even consider the breach in the sporting code! There's one person on here who would panic in that situation, be tempted to deal with the situation in their own way, or make mistakes. The point still remains, however, the spy scandal was used to shaft McLaren.

[EwanM]

McLaren have been calling for more money to be given to the teams and talking up the prospect of a breakaway series.

Hasn't most of the teams?
Haven't the FIA just announced that is what they plan to do?

[texasmr2]

It may come as a surprise to you and others, but I like to think I try to be impartial.

Normally you are but not in this case.

As I've said before, long before I was on this forum, I had a hell of a lot negative comments about how McLaren was run from c.2001. The reason my posts on the spy scandal seem so biased is because the much of issue was used against McLaren to settle personal vendettas and political scores. I think I've already proven that over these past months; the example of Ferrari's media slur campaign and Renault and Toyota's lack of punishment will suffice for this thread.

Your personal opinion is NOT fact nor are the media tidbit's you or anyone else post.

[McLaren Fan]

It may come as a surprise to you and others, but I like to think I try to be impartial.

Normally you are but not in this case.

As I've said before, long before I was on this forum, I had a hell of a lot negative comments about how McLaren was run from c.2001. The reason my posts on the spy scandal seem so biased is because the much of issue was used against McLaren to settle personal vendettas and political scores. I think I've already proven that over these past months; the example of Ferrari's media slur campaign and Renault and Toyota's lack of punishment will suffice for this thread.

Your personal opinion is NOT fact nor are the media tidbit's you or anyone else post.

I'm afraid it is in this case. Ferrari were allowed to spread their spurious propaganda to world with impunity. McLaren were clamped down upon harshly for what was - at worst - a footnote. Renault and Toyota's involvement in spying was much worse than McLaren's, but Renault and Toyota's deeds went unpunished but McLaren's were. Please tell me, Gregg, where is the discussion? Where is the room for debate? Where is the room for opinion?

[EwanM]

I think some of this is becoming a bit too personal... Don't you think?

[texasmr2]

I think some of this is becoming a bit too personal... Don't you think?

No I dont think it is compared to other thread's we have going or have seen, Mclaren Fan and I, just have different view's. I personaly have grown tired of the arguement so this is the last reply I will make.

[EwanM]

I think some of this is becoming a bit too personal... Don't you think?

No I dont think it is compared to other thread's we have going or have seen, Mclaren Fan and I, just have different view's. I personaly have grown tired of the arguement so this is the last reply I will make.

Mikep99 V Bud?

[Mikep99]

I think some of this is becoming a bit too personal... Don't you think?

No I dont think it is compared to other thread's we have going or have seen, Mclaren Fan and I, just have different view's. I personaly have grown tired of the arguement so this is the last reply I will make.

Mikep99 V Bud?

Yes I agree mate but me an bud go back a long way



I am the good looking one

[darwin dali]

I think some of this is becoming a bit too personal... Don't you think?

No I dont think it is compared to other thread's we have going or have seen, Mclaren Fan and I, just have different view's. I personaly have grown tired of the arguement so this is the last reply I will make.

Mikep99 V Bud?

Yes I agree mate but me an bud go back a long way



I am the good looking one

...who's not in the picture.

[bud]

Yes I agree mate but me an bud go back a long way



I am the good looking one

[Mikep99]

...who's not in the picture.

R U saying I am not sexy

[darwin dali]

...who's not in the picture.

R U saying I am not sexy

Can't tell since you're not in the pic