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[McLaren Fan]

Perhaps McLaren are afraid to speak out against the FIA lest there be reprisals.

I see that you're against McLaren today. You must have a split personality.

[darwin dali]

You know what is funny is the thread's topic has brought up one of the biggest debate's between Ferrari/McLaren fans becuase McLaren said they were not being picked on? Yet the McLaren camp CANNOT even accept what something that their own team say's?

Apparently it was propoganda planted by Ferrari to mislead the McLaren 'flock'?

Perhaps McLaren are afraid to speak out against the FIA lest there be reprisals.

Hm, would this qualify as reverse conspiracy?

[texasmr2]

Never against McLaren only what I deem as whining and crying. Everyone seem's to misunderstand me because I'm a Tifosi but I still pull for other team's so I will explain in as few word's as possible ok.

I want the best team/driver to win that's it but imho nobody whines and carries on more than the McLaren camp on this forum and it get's pretty dang annoying.

This thread could go on and on only because we, Ferrari and McLaren lambs, have different views as to what we percieve as right and wrong.

SO in closing McLaren said they deny that the FIA is picking on them so why are we all still argueing?

[McLaren Fan]

Never against McLaren only what I deem as whining and crying. Everyone seem's to misunderstand me because I'm a Tifosi but I still pull for other team's so I will explain in as few word's as possible ok.

I want the best team/driver to win that's it but imho nobody whines and carries on more than the McLaren camp on this forum and it get's pretty dang annoying.

This thread could go on and on only because we, Ferrari and McLaren lambs, have different views as to what we percieve as right and wrong.

SO in closing McLaren said they deny that the FIA is picking on them so why are we all still argueing?

Because, as I said, McLaren could be scared of saying anything against the FIA, lest Mosley strikes back again. Mosley and the FIA have shown they aren't exactly best friends with McLaren. Further, the reason McLaren fans may seem to be crying a lot of late is because the team we follow has been shafted by the FIA. I waited the best part of a decade to see McLaren win a title, was chuffed the team was on the right track, and then the team and its fans had that stolen from them. Yeah, McLaren had a rogue employee, but Renault and Toyota, who were ten times more guilty than McLaren, got off with absolutely no punishment at all. Ferrari, in the meantime, received God knows how many favours from the FIA and were allowed to say whatever the f*** they wanted with total impunity. That's a very hard medicine to swallow and I'll certainly not be forgetting the taste. I wouldn't expect you or any Tifosi to understand. You haven't got a bloody clue.

[EwanM]

Never against McLaren only what I deem as whining and crying. Everyone seem's to misunderstand me because I'm a Tifosi but I still pull for other team's so I will explain in as few word's as possible ok.

I want the best team/driver to win that's it but imho nobody whines and carries on more than the McLaren camp on this forum and it get's pretty dang annoying.

This thread could go on and on only because we, Ferrari and McLaren lambs, have different views as to what we percieve as right and wrong.

SO in closing McLaren said they deny that the FIA is picking on them so why are we all still argueing?

Because, as I said, McLaren could be scared of saying anything against the FIA, lest Mosley strikes back again. Mosley and the FIA have shown they aren't exactly best friends with McLaren. Further, the reason McLaren fans may seem to be crying a lot of late is because the team we follow has been shafted by the FIA. I waited the best part of a decade to see McLaren win a title, was chuffed the team was on the right track, and then the team and its fans had that stolen from them. Yeah, McLaren had a rogue employee, but Renault and Toyota, who were ten times more guilty than McLaren, got off with absolutely no punishment at all. Ferrari, in the meantime, received God knows how many favours from the FIA and were allowed to say whatever the f*** they wanted with total impunity. That's a very hard medicine to swallow and I'll certainly not be forgetting the taste. I wouldn't expect you or any Tifosi to understand. You haven't got a bloody clue.

Maybe you need to deliver a proper sucker punch, by winning the titles this year?
Even if there are "barriers", it's the only way.

[McLaren Fan]

Maybe you need to deliver a proper sucker punch, by winning the titles this year?
Even if there are "barriers", it's the only way.

I would love to see McLaren do that. The constructors' title - the one I really care about - is a bit of a long shot now, but the drivers' title is still well within the team's reach.

[darwin dali]

Ferrari, in the meantime, received God knows how many favours from the FIA and were allowed to say whatever the f*** they wanted with total impunity. That's a very hard medicine to swallow and I'll certainly not be forgetting the taste. I wouldn't expect you or any Tifosi to understand. You haven't got a bloody clue.

What DID Ferrari say that makes you qualify it with whatever the f*** they wanted to say with total impunity??

In the past decade or so, all I've heard them say was they agree with the FIA, they support the current concorde agreement rather then the ill-fated break-away series, they swallowed all the penalties THEY got without too much grumbling whatsoever and they acknowledge the FIA's and the stewards' authority. It sometimes made me want to puke how 'in line' they behaved, but that's how they operate and their success vindicates them. There were only a handful of occasions where Ferrari 'made a scene' and in most if not all cases they did so on a justifiable basis (e.g., the spy case). And when successful in their appeals, they certainly reaped the benefits of being a 'good' F1 citizen. Contrast that with McLaren's (RD's) route: belligerent, complaining, instigating a split, at the center of controversy - anybody surprised that they can't call in any favors from the stewards or the FIA?

[EwanM]

Maybe you need to deliver a proper sucker punch, by winning the titles this year?
Even if there are "barriers", it's the only way.

I would love to see McLaren do that. The constructors' title - the one I really care about - is a bit of a long shot now, but the drivers' title is still well within the team's reach.

Yeah well I hope you do, or at least keep the title race wide open. Same with BMW, I'm kinda on the fence for this years title.
As long as it remains close.

[texasmr2]

Because, as I said, McLaren could be scared of saying anything against the FIA, lest Mosley strikes back again.

That is a pretty sad excuse but if it get's you through the day so be it.

Mosley and the FIA have shown they aren't exactly best friends with McLaren. Further, the reason McLaren fans may seem to be crying a lot of late is because the team we follow has been shafted by the FIA. I waited the best part of a decade to see McLaren win a title, was chuffed the team was on the right track, and then the team and its fans had that stolen from them.

Thats a farce and you know it !

Yeah, McLaren had a rogue employee, but Renault and Toyota, who were ten times more guilty than McLaren got off with absolutely no punishment at all.

10 time's more guilty are you sure? I see guilty as guilty no matter as to how serious the crime is.

Ferrari, in the meantime, received God knows how many favours from the FIA and were allowed to say whatever the f*** they wanted with total impunity.

You should have taken the blue pill!

You haven't got a bloody clue.

That is only a peception of your reality which I can respect but disagree with.

[Jensonb]

Never against McLaren only what I deem as whining and crying. Everyone seem's to misunderstand me because I'm a Tifosi but I still pull for other team's so I will explain in as few word's as possible ok.

I want the best team/driver to win that's it but imho nobody whines and carries on more than the McLaren camp on this forum and it get's pretty dang annoying.

This thread could go on and on only because we, Ferrari and McLaren lambs, have different views as to what we percieve as right and wrong.

SO in closing McLaren said they deny that the FIA is picking on them so why are we all still argueing?

Because, as I said, McLaren could be scared of saying anything against the FIA, lest Mosley strikes back again. Mosley and the FIA have shown they aren't exactly best friends with McLaren. Further, the reason McLaren fans may seem to be crying a lot of late is because the team we follow has been shafted by the FIA. I waited the best part of a decade to see McLaren win a title, was chuffed the team was on the right track, and then the team and its fans had that stolen from them. Yeah, McLaren had a rogue employee, but Renault and Toyota, who were ten times more guilty than McLaren, got off with absolutely no punishment at all. Ferrari, in the meantime, received God knows how many favours from the FIA and were allowed to say whatever the f*** they wanted with total impunity. That's a very hard medicine to swallow and I'll certainly not be forgetting the taste. I wouldn't expect you or any Tifosi to understand. You haven't got a bloody clue.

But MF, all that's only true from a certain point of view. For the same reason that the hugely dedicated Ferrari fans might be very willing to see wrong in McLaren's actions and right in Ferrari's, you're very willing to do the inverse. You even mention at the end that you "wouldn't expect [the] Tifosi to understand". Obviously, one infers because they're biased. But so are you in that case, you can't have double standards about this, you're just biased the other way. There isn't anything wrong with bias as long as its acknowledged, bias is the basis of all opinion. What you can't do is state your opinion on events as fact and disdainfully dismiss the opinion of those with a different point of view.

[McLaren Fan]

What DID Ferrari say that makes you qualify it with whatever the f*** they wanted to say with total impunity??

In the spy scandal last year, for example, Ferrari conducted an absolutely reprehensible, amateurish media smear campaign against McLaren, which was extremely liberal with the truth. Conversely, McLaren got a footnote wrong in their version of events in the Renault spy case, but had cruise missiles of criticism from the FIA and were told to change this particular insignificant point. So, it's one rule for Ferrari and another rule for everybody else.

Because, as I said, McLaren could be scared of saying anything against the FIA, lest Mosley strikes back again.

That is a pretty sad excuse but if it get's you through the day so be it.

Yeah, well, I know my suspicions aren't without foundation. Max Mosley hates Ron Dennis and McLaren and the team were in favour of either getting more revenue for the teams or maybe forming a breakaway series. They paid the price for their views. Robert Mugabe would proud of Mosley.

Yeah, McLaren had a rogue employee, but Renault and Toyota, who were ten times more guilty than McLaren got off with absolutely no punishment at all.

10 time's more guilty are you sure? I see guilty as guilty no matter as to how serious the crime is.

Get real. So, somebody steals a loaf of bread is just as evil and just as guilty as a serial killer, then?

[Jensonb]

So, somebody steals a loaf of bread is just as evil and just as guilty as a serial killer, then?

Well, yes, actually on the guilty part. You can pretty much either be guilty or innocent. Being guilty is not the same as being vil.

[McLaren Fan]

So, somebody steals a loaf of bread is just as evil and just as guilty as a serial killer, then?

Well, yes, actually on the guilty part. You can pretty much either be guilty or innocent. Being guilty is not the same as being vil.

My example was poorly thought out, so forget it. Levels of guilt, however, are different in the context of the spy scandal. McLaren were punished for spying, but Renault and Toyota's levels of guilt in this particular breach of the sporting code were much greater than McLaren's.

[texasmr2]

Chris,
Really your grasping at non-existant rope's in belief you can pull yourself out of the huge pile of dung or grave you buried yourself in with your past remark's.

What seem's to me and is the most frustrating, and really pisses me off, if the idea that the McLaren fan's statement's, and posting of link's from another website, are cemented fact's!!!!!!!!!!

My remark's to you Chris, as I'm sure you know , are nothing personal we just disagree on this subject.

[EwanM]

So, somebody steals a loaf of bread is just as evil and just as guilty as a serial killer, then?

Well, yes, actually on the guilty part. You can pretty much either be guilty or innocent. Being guilty is not the same as being vil.

My example was poorly thought out, so forget it. Levels of guilt, however, are different in the context of the spy scandal. McLaren were punished for spying, but Renault and Toyota's levels of guilt in this particular breach of the sporting code were much greater than McLaren's.

Maybe so, but I think the FIA wanted to try and finish the Spy- Gate scandal.
After the year the sport had.