FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[EwanM]

It is NOT the teams fault. Any driver who has spent as much time behind the wheel as an F1 driver has clearly knows the rules, knows when he has broken them and knows he may or may not get away with it. A first year club racer learns passing rules in his first race, while still a newbie running on a provisional license. If hamilton is whining and says he didn't know then he is a lying tard who clearly believes his own hype. That pass wasn't even borderline...it was blatantly illegal. Clearly, completely, blatantly illegal and hamilton knew it. He took the chance that he wouldn't get caught (who amoung us hasn't tried that one) and it didn't pay off. Penalty assessed, and very much deserved.

I still think it was the team's responsibility to remind LH (who just had an adrenalin shot going through his veins with that little excursion) that he should let SV by. And they have the rule book right in front of them if needed while he doesn't. So, either they dropped the ball and didn't tell him or they told him and he didn't listen or they decided not to tell him and try to get away with it. I'd really like to listen to their audio communications after that incident. At any rate, duh, it didn't work!

Yep, you're right darwin. AS HAMILTON SAID MCLAREN ARE "a great team" (they are of course) so they should have been on the ball.

[darwin dali]

It is NOT the teams fault. Any driver who has spent as much time behind the wheel as an F1 driver has clearly knows the rules, knows when he has broken them and knows he may or may not get away with it. A first year club racer learns passing rules in his first race, while still a newbie running on a provisional license. If hamilton is whining and says he didn't know then he is a lying tard who clearly believes his own hype. That pass wasn't even borderline...it was blatantly illegal. Clearly, completely, blatantly illegal and hamilton knew it. He took the chance that he wouldn't get caught (who amoung us hasn't tried that one) and it didn't pay off. Penalty assessed, and very much deserved.

Except it was a margnal call because he was past before he left the track.

No it wasn't! Had he not passed in this reckless way, he wouldn't have gone off course. So, it's directly related.

[billindenver]

It is NOT the teams fault. Any driver who has spent as much time behind the wheel as an F1 driver has clearly knows the rules, knows when he has broken them and knows he may or may not get away with it. A first year club racer learns passing rules in his first race, while still a newbie running on a provisional license. If hamilton is whining and says he didn't know then he is a lying tard who clearly believes his own hype. That pass wasn't even borderline...it was blatantly illegal. Clearly, completely, blatantly illegal and hamilton knew it. He took the chance that he wouldn't get caught (who amoung us hasn't tried that one) and it didn't pay off. Penalty assessed, and very much deserved.

Except it was a margnal call because he was past before he left the track.

Umm, no. He left the track BECAUSE he made that pass. He got by the guy because he didn't slow down for the bend....that is not a legal pass. Not ever. If it was, you could blow through a chicane every lap just by ignoring the braking area and as long as you were physically past him when you went off it would be legal. It's not. It never will be. If you make a pass, you must also make the corner. Next time you watch the start of a race and see someone go wide on turn one...and you see them drop back in behind the guy instead of completing the pass...you will now know why they did that. They didn't WANT to be behind him....the driver knows if he doesn't give the spot back, he will be penalized. That's racing. The reason we don't race on a 3 mile wide section of concrete where you can drive anywhere you want is because its done on a racetrack...which you must stay on...which is kinda the point.

[racechick]

It is NOT the teams fault. Any driver who has spent as much time behind the wheel as an F1 driver has clearly knows the rules, knows when he has broken them and knows he may or may not get away with it. A first year club racer learns passing rules in his first race, while still a newbie running on a provisional license. If hamilton is whining and says he didn't know then he is a lying tard who clearly believes his own hype. That pass wasn't even borderline...it was blatantly illegal. Clearly, completely, blatantly illegal and hamilton knew it. He took the chance that he wouldn't get caught (who amoung us hasn't tried that one) and it didn't pay off. Penalty assessed, and very much deserved.

Except it was a margnal call because he was past before he left the track.

Umm, no. He left the track BECAUSE he made that pass. He got by the guy because he didn't slow down for the bend....that is not a legal pass. Not ever. If it was, you could blow through a chicane every lap just by ignoring the braking area and as long as you were physically past him when you went off it would be legal. It's not. It never will be. If you make a pass, you must also make the corner. Next time you watch the start of a race and see someone go wide on turn one...and you see them drop back in behind the guy instead of completing the pass...you will now know why they did that. They didn't WANT to be behind him....the driver knows if he doesn't give the spot back, he will be penalized. That's racing. The reason we don't race on a 3 mile wide section of concrete where you can drive anywhere you want is because its done on a racetrack...which you must stay on...which is kinda the point.

Well he managed to stay on in monaco didnt he where theres walls all round and you cant go off. Drivers track and he won. Mickey mouse magney bore and he was WELL PAST and had to get off the track cos other cars were in the way. DOH!!

[przemo]

I agree with the stewards. Immediately after that incident I knew there may be trouble, but I thought Lewis knew he made a mistake. Clearly, he thinks that pass was good and the penalty was only given to him, because someone doesn't like him.

"I feel cool. It's all good. Racing is racing. I'm still here, there's nothing you can do to get me out of it," Hamilton told reporters after the race.
(...)
He added: "I kept pushing. There's nothing you can do that can distract me. You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do and I'll keep battling and try and come back with a result."

"Going in I was ahead but I lost the back end and to correct it I corrected it and I went over the kerb which I don't particularly see as cheating, but rules are rules."
(...)

From everything he says, it looks like everyone is out to get him, but he won't succumb, whatever they do. This is the best: "You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do". Doesn't he know why they gave him a penalty? It was his fault he got it (and the other penalties too), not the stewards'. Time to grow up and admit to own mistakes. Also maybe he doesn't know the rules, because he clearly cut the chicane, but he doesn't see this as cheating. As DD pointed out, we've seen this numerous times that a driver allows another car to regain a position after an illegal pass.

[McLaren Fan]

Hamilton's comments were a joke. Whilst I'm not completely convinced about Hamilton's drive-through penalty, he completely deserved his ten-place grid penalty. Hamilton has, however, made numerous mistakes before, and has blamed everybody but himself for them. He needs to grow up and stop acting like a spoiled brat.

[f1ea]

It's the stewards and it takes them some time to review the case. So, McLaren is at fault - they should have smelled it and told LH to back off to let SV pass.

Strike 1.

How many times have we seen the repass happening right away? That's not the stewards telling them, it's the teams themselves as a preventive action before the stewards get serious. Face it, McLaren dropped the ball here.

Strike 2.

No it wasn't! Had he not passed in this reckless way, he wouldn't have gone off course. So, it's directly related.

Strike 3. He's out.

To me the penaly was extremely simple. The stewards have to look at more evidence and disscuss before they can make a decision, because the onboard camera is not always the perfect view. Lewis and Mclaren should have known the penalty would come. Example: Heikki and Jarno in the very same race... from Heikki's onbard it looked as if Jarno turned to him... but from above you clearly see Jarno keeping his defensive line.

[deMuRe]

Do you? How so?

You're putting words in people's mouths by implying it's impossible to think Lewis Hamilton is an insufferable git without it being because you're jealous of his success.

It's also a broken assumption, because there are equally and even more successful drivers many of us think are great people.

Not putting words into anyones mouth, simply agreeing with an alternative scenario to the "Lewis is an ungrateful arrogant insufferable git" camp. We all have our own opinions and can expresss them, it isn't only the right of the hamilton haters.

What's your point? It's still wrong to assume that people only hate him because they're jealous.

Correct, I'm definitely not jealous of LH, he's carrying his own shovel at the moment and doing an extremely good job of digging his own hole.

I started out liking him, but coming out after making a rookie's mistake and trying to blame the team was the final straw. Before this incident I saw him as cheesy, but was willing to put that down to the media blitzkreig that's currently happening in the UK over Lewis.

I'm starting to believe Alonso when he said his presence gave the team half a second a lap. McLaren certainly are feeling the pinch of having two drivers that don't know what they are doing.

[racechick]

Do you? How so?

You're putting words in people's mouths by implying it's impossible to think Lewis Hamilton is an insufferable git without it being because you're jealous of his success.

It's also a broken assumption, because there are equally and even more successful drivers many of us think are great people.

Not putting words into anyones mouth, simply agreeing with an alternative scenario to the "Lewis is an ungrateful arrogant insufferable git" camp. We all have our own opinions and can expresss them, it isn't only the right of the hamilton haters.

What's your point? It's still wrong to assume that people only hate him because they're jealous.

Correct, I'm definitely not jealous of LH, he's carrying his own shovel at the moment and doing an extremely good job of digging his own hole.

I started out liking him, but coming out after making a rookie's mistake and trying to blame the team was the final straw. Before this incident I saw him as cheesy, but was willing to put that down to the media blitzkreig that's currently happening in the UK over Lewis.

I'm starting to believe Alonso when he said his presence gave the team half a second a lap. McLaren certainly are feeling the pinch of having two drivers that don't know what they are doing.

Where did alonso's half a secong just go? Whoops Piquet beat him

As regards the jealousy issue, you mis the point, its not personal jealousy, as you obviosly would not be in contenton with Lewis now would you

[Martin]

I find that the amount of negative comment any sports 'star' gets, amongst the fans, is directly related to the amount of media coverage that person gets.
In G.B. there is much negative criticism, amongst the particular sports fans, of David Beckham, Andy Murray and Tim Henman (before he retired), (its Wimbledon tennis week here now) and various other high profile 'stars' including, of course LH.
Its an interesting observation by a football fan friend of mine, that, if a foreign player for a GB team gets lots of publicity, he is less likely to get negative comment by the supporters than a 'home grown' player.

The facts are that LH is a very talented driver, he does have the potential, and the time, to become one of the real greats in F1, he is, relatively, inexperienced in F1 and life generally. The Media attention is a new pressure that he has to cope with, so, maybe he does not always get it right, but, you cannot be a world champion in anything by constantly being 'Mr Nice Guy' the whole time.
Every world champ there ever was has had supporters and detractors, so maybe all this stuff now is a good sign for him, in that its another sign that he is world champion material !.
One day LH will be world champ, I feel sure, in fact I feel sure that he will be world champ more than once - he will always command a seat in a top car. McL & RD are not fools, LH only has a drive there because they see the potential in him.
If LH were the worst person in the world then this planet would be a much nicer place to live. Unfortunately, we also have people like MM on this planet.
Extreme comments, either way, about LH are not justified. He is just a young man with lots of talent and things to learn. Why cant we leave it at that?

[Jensonb]

I find that the amount of negative comment any sports 'star' gets, amongst the fans, is directly related to the amount of media coverage that person gets.
In G.B. there is much negative criticism, amongst the particular sports fans, of David Beckham, Andy Murray and Tim Henman (before he retired), (its Wimbledon tennis week here now) and various other high profile 'stars' including, of course LH.
Its an interesting observation by a football fan friend of mine, that, if a foreign player for a GB team gets lots of publicity, he is less likely to get negative comment by the supporters than a 'home grown' player.

The facts are that LH is a very talented driver, he does have the potential, and the time, to become one of the real greats in F1, he is, relatively, inexperienced in F1 and life generally. The Media attention is a new pressure that he has to cope with, so, maybe he does not always get it right, but, you cannot be a world champion in anything by constantly being 'Mr Nice Guy' the whole time.
Every world champ there ever was has had supporters and detractors, so maybe all this stuff now is a good sign for him, in that its another sign that he is world champion material !.
One day LH will be world champ, I feel sure, in fact I feel sure that he will be world champ more than once - he will always command a seat in a top car. McL & RD are not fools, LH only has a drive there because they see the potential in him.
If LH were the worst person in the world then this planet would be a much nicer place to live. Unfortunately, we also have people like MM on this planet.
Extreme comments, either way, about LH are not justified. He is just a young man with lots of talent and things to learn. Why cant we leave it at that?

Because it's opinion, not fact.

[bud]

Because it's opinion, not fact.

you said it

[racechick]

I find that the amount of negative comment any sports 'star' gets, amongst the fans, is directly related to the amount of media coverage that person gets.
In G.B. there is much negative criticism, amongst the particular sports fans, of David Beckham, Andy Murray and Tim Henman (before he retired), (its Wimbledon tennis week here now) and various other high profile 'stars' including, of course LH.
Its an interesting observation by a football fan friend of mine, that, if a foreign player for a GB team gets lots of publicity, he is less likely to get negative comment by the supporters than a 'home grown' player.

The facts are that LH is a very talented driver, he does have the potential, and the time, to become one of the real greats in F1, he is, relatively, inexperienced in F1 and life generally. The Media attention is a new pressure that he has to cope with, so, maybe he does not always get it right, but, you cannot be a world champion in anything by constantly being 'Mr Nice Guy' the whole time.
Every world champ there ever was has had supporters and detractors, so maybe all this stuff now is a good sign for him, in that its another sign that he is world champion material !.
One day LH will be world champ, I feel sure, in fact I feel sure that he will be world champ more than once - he will always command a seat in a top car. McL & RD are not fools, LH only has a drive there because they see the potential in him.
If LH were the worst person in the world then this planet would be a much nicer place to live. Unfortunately, we also have people like MM on this planet.
Extreme comments, either way, about LH are not justified. He is just a young man with lots of talent and things to learn. Why cant we leave it at that?

Good post again Martin! Of course Lewis gets things wrong sometimes. hes 23! he doesnt manipulate the media, they manipulate him

[deMuRe]

Do you? How so?

You're putting words in people's mouths by implying it's impossible to think Lewis Hamilton is an insufferable git without it being because you're jealous of his success.

It's also a broken assumption, because there are equally and even more successful drivers many of us think are great people.

Not putting words into anyones mouth, simply agreeing with an alternative scenario to the "Lewis is an ungrateful arrogant insufferable git" camp. We all have our own opinions and can expresss them, it isn't only the right of the hamilton haters.

What's your point? It's still wrong to assume that people only hate him because they're jealous.

Correct, I'm definitely not jealous of LH, he's carrying his own shovel at the moment and doing an extremely good job of digging his own hole.

I started out liking him, but coming out after making a rookie's mistake and trying to blame the team was the final straw. Before this incident I saw him as cheesy, but was willing to put that down to the media blitzkreig that's currently happening in the UK over Lewis.

I'm starting to believe Alonso when he said his presence gave the team half a second a lap. McLaren certainly are feeling the pinch of having two drivers that don't know what they are doing.

Where did alonso's half a secong just go? Whoops Piquet beat him

As regards the jealousy issue, you mis the point, its not personal jealousy, as you obviosly would not be in contenton with Lewis now would you

It's not even worth a response, you have no idea how to follow a constructive argument.

[racechick]

Do you? How so?

You're putting words in people's mouths by implying it's impossible to think Lewis Hamilton is an insufferable git without it being because you're jealous of his success.

It's also a broken assumption, because there are equally and even more successful drivers many of us think are great people.

Not putting words into anyones mouth, simply agreeing with an alternative scenario to the "Lewis is an ungrateful arrogant insufferable git" camp. We all have our own opinions and can expresss them, it isn't only the right of the hamilton haters.

What's your point? It's still wrong to assume that people only hate him because they're jealous.

Correct, I'm definitely not jealous of LH, he's carrying his own shovel at the moment and doing an extremely good job of digging his own hole.

I started out liking him, but coming out after making a rookie's mistake and trying to blame the team was the final straw. Before this incident I saw him as cheesy, but was willing to put that down to the media blitzkreig that's currently happening in the UK over Lewis.

I'm starting to believe Alonso when he said his presence gave the team half a second a lap. McLaren certainly are feeling the pinch of having two drivers that don't know what they are doing.

Where did alonso's half a secong just go? Whoops Piquet beat him

As regards the jealousy issue, you mis the point, its not personal jealousy, as you obviosly would not be in contenton with Lewis now would you

It's not even worth a response, you have no idea how to follow a constructive argument.

says you!