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[texasmr2]

Indeed and MS is second on my list with Ayrton being the first. Although there are other driver's one could dispute as being better than them I usually just refer to the driver's I had the pleasure of seeing.

[racechick]

Gilles was better, just unfortunately didnt have long enough to accumulate stats......but then he didnt need stats

[racechick]

And Jim Clark

[f1ea]

you left out
lack of competition within his team though could that come under the team support guise
and dominant car

You mean lack of destructive competition within the team...

Let the other teams and drivers compete with Ferrari and MS. if MS had failed to deliver, then i'm sure he would have been thrown in a "competitive" driver to his side. But the truth is, NONE of those drivers that kept complaining about how much Ferrari supported MS would have done what MS did for Ferrari either:

MS left the Championship winning car for a mediocre team and turned it into a devastating machine (not by himself of course). But when this team lost out, instead of throwing tantrums or running to the next winning team, he retired.

[bernification]

Basically imho the claim's that MS is the greatest has more to do with his record's than his natural talent. In natural talent I would most likely put Ayrton and Jilles ahead of Michael and I think f1ea said it best,

About Schu... I think his dominance was down to a perfectly balanced mix of:
1. Natural talent
2. Extraordinary commitment
3. Team support

I can't say anything but agree. Gilles realised he was in an extra-ordinary position, and believed it was his duty to entertain and inspire.

Were it not for the cruel event that took Ayrtons life the stat books would read very differently.

[7UpJordan]

Were it not for the cruel event that took Ayrtons life the stat books would read very differently.

Indeed, he could easily have got nearly 100 pole positions and he was only 10 wins away from overtaking Prost in terms of race victories too

[Mikep99]

Gilles was better, just unfortunately didnt have long enough to accumulate stats......but then he didnt need stats

Agree, Gilles spoke on the track loud and clear.

[darwin dali]

Senna was already 34 and feeling the breath of the young lion MS - I doubt he'd have changed the stats that much.

[racechick]

Senna was already 34 and feeling the breath of the young lion MS - I doubt he'd have changed the stats that much.

Oh thats funny!!

[darwin dali]

Senna was already 34 and feeling the breath of the young lion MS - I doubt he'd have changed the stats that much.

Oh thats funny!!

MS had won the first two races, both times passing AS in the race. Eventually AS spun out on his own in Brazil and was punted off by MH at the Pacific GP. Zero points for AS, max points for MS. Then Imola happened...

[f1ea]

Not to take any credit away from them, both Senna and Gilles had incredible ability, BUT they both lost their heads sometimes in some way or another. Gilles and Senna were more determined to win than to be the best, as opposed to MS. And Senna was less commited to his teams and jumped ship to his convenience.

That being said... if I was about to enter F1 and someone asked me "The next" who i'd rather be.
I'd have a real hard time deciding...

[bud]

Let the other teams and drivers compete with Ferrari and MS. if MS had failed to deliver, then i'm sure he would have been thrown in a "competitive" driver to his side. But the truth is, NONE of those drivers that kept complaining about how much Ferrari supported MS would have done what MS did for Ferrari either:

as a driver when your car is the fastest in the field and your team mate is deliberately selected to support your cause then the titles in the bag before the seasons begun. Manufactured champion At least Ayrton can say he won a title against a fellow world champion in the same car
no doubting Schumi had immense talent but to hear all his fanatics claim he is the greatest of all time and use his stats as the basis should look at how they came about before opening their mouths and making those claims.

MS had won the first two races, both times passing AS in the race. Eventually AS spun out on his own in Brazil and was punted off by MH at the Pacific GP. Zero points for AS, max points for MS. Then Imola happened...

Yet he only beat Ayrtons team mate by one point after deliberately taking him out in the deciding race....

[darwin dali]

He beat everybody in that inferior Benetton

[bud]

He beat everybody in that inferior Benetton

inferior Benetton meaning traction controlled Benetton

[Mikep99]

no doubting Schumi had immense talent but to hear all his fanatics claim he is the greatest of all time and use his stats as the basis should look at how they came about before opening their mouths and making those claims.

I don't think he is the greatest. In fact far from it in my eyes but this talk does not anoy me as much as the Hammy talk. At least Schumi has the stats to back him up Hammy has done sweet FA and some would say he is the greatest or will be one day