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[Rivelution]

I am now comparing the debut seasons of each of the big 4: Prost, Senna, Shumacher and Hamilton. Hamilton is far better, followed by Prost, then Senna and Schumacher.

But:

Lewis Hamilton qualified 4th and Finished 3rd (The 14th rookie to finish on a podium in their debut race. Can someone please find this list for me?)
Alain Prost qualified 12th and finished 6th
Shumacher qualified 7th and Finished with a big DNF on the first lap. Interestingly, he only participated in that race because a Jordan Driver was in gaol. That was Schumacher's only race for Jordan, at the Belgium Grand Prix. In the next round, he moved to Benetton, which is where the stats get interesting. He once again qualified 7th, but finished 5th, which puts him ahead of Alain Prost. So what would have become of Schumacher had he not had the Clutch Failure at the Eau Rogue corner on the First Lap of his career. He may have beat Alain Prost.

Now for Senna, who had 16th place qualification, but also had a a big DNF in his first race. He was forced to retire on his 8th lap. But his second race reveals a different story. He qualified in 16th position, and finished in 5th. So these are where the four stand on their first completed races of their careers:

1st: Hamilton
2nd:Schumacher
3rd:Senna
4th:Prost

Now is the be-all-and-end-all, by comparing their first seasons:

Lewis Hamilton: 109 points after 17 races (6.4 points per race)
Michael Schumacher: 4 points after 6 races (0.7 points per race)
Ayrton Senna: 13 points after 15 races (0.9 points per race)
Alain Prost: 5 points after 13 races (0.4 points per race)

So as it stands, 1)Hamilton 2)Senna 3)Schumacher 4)Prost.

A lot of people will argue that Hamilton is in a better car. Fair point. But is his car so much better that he is 7 times better than Senna? There is only one more test that we can do. But we would have to exclude Hamilton. If we ccompare their maturity stats, I mean if we compare how much they developed over 5 years then we could come to a more accurate result. But Hamilton is a third of the way through his second season. But I don't have time.

I also want to compare the average distance of time between podium finishes, pole positions and DNF's. Hamilton will dominate in this regard. But it will be interesting to see the results of the other three, in whcih Senna was better.

My studies prove that Senna was better at getting results in a crap car, a title that Hamilton will never get, and hence he will never be able to prove himself in this regard. Does anybody have any other drivers that they would like me to include in my study?

looks like you are just glorifying Hamilton.

[Hanwombat]

Thanks to my fellow Aussie Hamilton Suporter, my sig has been fixed.

I am now comparing the debut seasons of each of the big 4: Prost, Senna, Shumacher and Hamilton. Hamilton is far better, followed by Prost, then Senna and Schumacher.

But:

Lewis Hamilton qualified 4th and Finished 3rd (The 14th rookie to finish on a podium in their debut race. Can someone please find this list for me?)
Alain Prost qualified 12th and finished 6th
Shumacher qualified 7th and Finished with a big DNF on the first lap. Interestingly, he only participated in that race because a Jordan Driver was in gaol. That was Schumacher's only race for Jordan, at the Belgium Grand Prix. In the next round, he moved to Benetton, which is where the stats get interesting. He once again qualified 7th, but finished 5th, which puts him ahead of Alain Prost. So what would have become of Schumacher had he not had the Clutch Failure at the Eau Rogue corner on the First Lap of his career. He may have beat Alain Prost.

Now for Senna, who had 16th place qualification, but also had a a big DNF in his first race. He was forced to retire on his 8th lap. But his second race reveals a different story. He qualified in 16th position, and finished in 5th. So these are where the four stand on their first completed races of their careers:

1st: Hamilton
2nd:Schumacher
3rd:Senna
4th:Prost

Now is the be-all-and-end-all, by comparing their first seasons:

Lewis Hamilton: 109 points after 17 races (6.4 points per race)
Michael Schumacher: 4 points after 6 races (0.7 points per race)
Ayrton Senna: 13 points after 15 races (0.9 points per race)
Alain Prost: 5 points after 13 races (0.4 points per race)

So as it stands, 1)Hamilton 2)Senna 3)Schumacher 4)Prost.

A lot of people will argue that Hamilton is in a better car. Fair point. But is his car so much better that he is 7 times better than Senna? There is only one more test that we can do. But we would have to exclude Hamilton. If we ccompare their maturity stats, I mean if we compare how much they developed over 5 years then we could come to a more accurate result. But Hamilton is a third of the way through his second season. But I don't have time.

I also want to compare the average distance of time between podium finishes, pole positions and DNF's. Hamilton will dominate in this regard. But it will be interesting to see the results of the other three, in whcih Senna was better.

My studies prove that Senna was better at getting results in a crap car, a title that Hamilton will never get, and hence he will never be able to prove himself in this regard. Does anybody have any other drivers that they would like me to include in my study?

I don't like this analysis

[7UpJordan]

I don't think there is any way you can really analyse the "big 4"'s debut years. They were all in different eras, different drivers were around and they all had different cars.

[Hanwombat]

I would agree, cars from say a decade ago are different to the now a day Formula cars

[onelapdown]

The whole "Is Hamilton a legend or is he just rubbish" thing is a bit silly if you ask me. I can't see how anyone can question the brilliance of his first season. Only Jacques Villeneuve and Jackie Stewart seriously rival him statistically, and as for the rest who started in non-winning cars it's impossible to make a comparison. As for whether Hamilton fits into "Legend class" (which for me comprises Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart, Gilles Villeneuve, Senna and Schumacher), we won't know that for another decade so it's pointless talking about it now...

Getting back to the original post, I remember reading a story about Senna in go-karts where he was insistent that his left and right wheels were different sizes. His mechanics said they were the same tyres. He took it out, came back and said no, they're different. They measured them and sure enough they were different... by a couple of millimetres!

I also remember hearing a story about Jenson Button's first time at Spa when he braked too late for the hairpin. He came back to the pits and said the 100m board was too close to the corner, and so it came to pass.

[Big Azza]

Thanks to my fellow Aussie Hamilton Suporter, my sig has been fixed.

I am now comparing the debut seasons of each of the big 4: Prost, Senna, Shumacher and Hamilton. Hamilton is far better, followed by Prost, then Senna and Schumacher.

But:

Lewis Hamilton qualified 4th and Finished 3rd (The 14th rookie to finish on a podium in their debut race. Can someone please find this list for me?)
Alain Prost qualified 12th and finished 6th
Shumacher qualified 7th and Finished with a big DNF on the first lap. Interestingly, he only participated in that race because a Jordan Driver was in gaol. That was Schumacher's only race for Jordan, at the Belgium Grand Prix. In the next round, he moved to Benetton, which is where the stats get interesting. He once again qualified 7th, but finished 5th, which puts him ahead of Alain Prost. So what would have become of Schumacher had he not had the Clutch Failure at the Eau Rogue corner on the First Lap of his career. He may have beat Alain Prost.

Now for Senna, who had 16th place qualification, but also had a a big DNF in his first race. He was forced to retire on his 8th lap. But his second race reveals a different story. He qualified in 16th position, and finished in 5th. So these are where the four stand on their first completed races of their careers:

1st: Hamilton
2nd:Schumacher
3rd:Senna
4th:Prost

Now is the be-all-and-end-all, by comparing their first seasons:

Lewis Hamilton: 109 points after 17 races (6.4 points per race)
Michael Schumacher: 4 points after 6 races (0.7 points per race)
Ayrton Senna: 13 points after 15 races (0.9 points per race)
Alain Prost: 5 points after 13 races (0.4 points per race)

So as it stands, 1)Hamilton 2)Senna 3)Schumacher 4)Prost.

A lot of people will argue that Hamilton is in a better car. Fair point. But is his car so much better that he is 7 times better than Senna? There is only one more test that we can do. But we would have to exclude Hamilton. If we ccompare their maturity stats, I mean if we compare how much they developed over 5 years then we could come to a more accurate result. But Hamilton is a third of the way through his second season. But I don't have time.

I also want to compare the average distance of time between podium finishes, pole positions and DNF's. Hamilton will dominate in this regard. But it will be interesting to see the results of the other three, in whcih Senna was better.

My studies prove that Senna was better at getting results in a crap car, a title that Hamilton will never get, and hence he will never be able to prove himself in this regard. Does anybody have any other drivers that they would like me to include in my study?

Wow... what a waste of an hour of research...

[Rick Buchanan]

Yes, he was. Absolutely brilliant.

Go to Youtube and see his F1 debut at Toleman, Williams, McLaren.
The lap with the Williams shows both his karting background, and his
ability to be one with the car. He just settled in, focused, and kept
moving the car forward faster, and faster. I believe he set an unofficial
lap record in his first time in an F-1 cockpit. Why Frank or Patrick didn't
pay off a contract and snag Senna on that day is a mystery to me. He
showed brilliance on his first day.

Clark was a ballet dancer in the cockpit, Stewart, an engineer, Michael
was smooth under pressure and relentless, but Senna was just brilliant.
It's hard to take great drivers and compare them with others of different
driving eras, but Senna really was just the best. If you can find it (I can't)
there is a video of some guy with a lot more money than talent driving his
Formula car in a club race. Not to deprocate his love for the sport or his
ability to buy a really nice car, but his skill level is..well, almost comical.
Then go to the video of Senna at Monaco. You can't help but be stunned
at his skill.

Of course debate in this rarified atmosphere is redundant...a really bad
driver in F-1 is nothing short of fantastic when compared with the rest
of us.

I just joined tonight. I go back to the golden years of F-1. My first
exposure to the sport was in LIFE magazine. I was hooked. Back then
F-1 was "sooo continental". Our exposure here in the West was a brief
glimps of Watkins Glen, a trip to S.I.R. and maybe see Graham Hill pass
by, or scour the pages of Road & Track. My cousin had albums (33 1/3 rpm)
of the cars racing past the pits and the, on scene narrator commenting on
the cars as they went past.

Back in high school, a friend of mine was an accomplished artist and he created
Saber F-1 Racing. A ficticious F-1 team. The 11 x 17 illustrations came complete
with captions and comments...reminds me of the old Werner Von Buhrer illustrations
in R&T. I had a good...even brilliant F-1 career with Saber Racing.

Got my first kart in 1965 and learned to turn, and keep a vehicle properly balanced.
Went racing (Karts) in 1981 & 1982. I put my previous experience to work and decided
to show the others what I had learned in my early years. Had my clock cleaned by a 14
year old kid. I was a legend in my own mind, but what a legend.

-Rick

[Rivelution]

Yes, he was. Absolutely brilliant.

Go to Youtube and see his F1 debut at Toleman, Williams, McLaren.
The lap with the Williams shows both his karting background, and his
ability to be one with the car. He just settled in, focused, and kept
moving the car forward faster, and faster. I believe he set an unofficial
lap record in his first time in an F-1 cockpit. Why Frank or Patrick didn't
pay off a contract and snag Senna on that day is a mystery to me. He
showed brilliance on his first day.

Clark was a ballet dancer in the cockpit, Stewart, an engineer, Michael
was smooth under pressure and relentless, but Senna was just brilliant.
It's hard to take great drivers and compare them with others of different
driving eras, but Senna really was just the best. If you can find it (I can't)
there is a video of some guy with a lot more money than talent driving his
Formula car in a club race. Not to deprocate his love for the sport or his
ability to buy a really nice car, but his skill level is..well, almost comical.
Then go to the video of Senna at Monaco. You can't help but be stunned
at his skill.

Of course debate in this rarified atmosphere is redundant...a really bad
driver in F-1 is nothing short of fantastic when compared with the rest
of us.

I just joined tonight. I go back to the golden years of F-1. My first
exposure to the sport was in LIFE magazine. I was hooked. Back then
F-1 was "sooo continental". Our exposure here in the West was a brief
glimps of Watkins Glen, a trip to S.I.R. and maybe see Graham Hill pass
by, or scour the pages of Road & Track. My cousin had albums (33 1/3 rpm)
of the cars racing past the pits and the, on scene narrator commenting on
the cars as they went past.

Back in high school, a friend of mine was an accomplished artist and he created
Saber F-1 Racing. A ficticious F-1 team. The 11 x 17 illustrations came complete
with captions and comments...reminds me of the old Werner Von Buhrer illustrations
in R&T. I had a good...even brilliant F-1 career with Saber Racing.

Got my first kart in 1965 and learned to turn, and keep a vehicle properly balanced.
Went racing (Karts) in 1981 & 1982. I put my previous experience to work and decided
to show the others what I had learned in my early years. Had my clock cleaned by a 14
year old kid. I was a legend in my own mind, but what a legend.

-Rick

wow that was a good read, thanks and welcome . You should introduce yourself in the 'introductions' section.

[bud]

Great pic bud thank you for sharing and it's going into my archive's if you dont mind?

cheers and by all means go for it

[Sam-KK24]

Bud, that is an amazing piece of Art!

I did not get to see Senna race live, but I have done my best to download lots of videos of him. He was a great racer. I would call myself a diehard Schumacher fan, but Ayrton seemed more special.

I have the belief that Ayrton was more naturally gifted, but Schumacher worked harder to become as successfull as he was.

I just finished watchin the Brazilian GP of 1991, he won with only 2 gears?! Most F1 racers today retire when they lose 1 or 2 gears!

I think it shows how much of a Legend Senna is, think about it. So many people cried with joy when they emulated him, Schumacher at Monza and Barrichello at Hockeinheim to name a few..

Do you agree?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmr3pqkhSgA

I am amazed, and sniffing

[texasmr2]

Senna was a man among men:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpSM2U4M_eo

Some great incar footage of Senna in Montreal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibzJhAnN ... re=related

[Mikep99]

Now this is a well done tribute.

Ayrton Senna da Silva Tribute - Kart to Williams

Clicky to watch

[Mikep99]

Senna onboard at Manaco
Clicky to watch

[Red Racer]

The best lap ever. I don't think anyone has posted this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t8QMyuGhdE

[McLaren Fan]

Has anybody got any footage of Senna's 1988 pole position lap around Monaco? I'm surprised that somebody has not got it up on You Tube or something.