FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[sagi58]

Is it possible there is a "perfect" temperature for tires, depending on the circuit?
From what I understood, Scarabs suggested that, at Monza, the "cooler" tires gave the Mercedes
drivers more grip.

It would seem there is a finite range where the tires are cool enough to give them more grip,
yet warmed up enough not to be a safety concern, which is what Pirelli wanted to ensure.

As far as I'm concerned, this all means that Mercedes have done their homework and have
found yet another avenue to tweak yet another advantage for their drivers. Good on them!

[stonemonkey]

If merc were getting consistently exceptional starts I could think theres maybe something different they're doing but their starts have been very hit or miss.
There are optimal pressures and temps and I'd think all the teams will be aware of them to a large extent. But consider a car coming out the pits on tyres not long out the blankets, they still need heated up more before they start to give grip.

And on scarbs comments, this all directly involved the FIA, pirelli, and safety, all in front of the stewards. If there had been any bullet, it wouldn't have been dodged.

[overboost]

Sounds like scarbs is talking out his ring, when have you ever heard of any driver wanting cool tyres at race start or safety car re start so they have better grip?

Well I guess you are learning new things from Scarbs stonemonkey. Life long learning as they say.

Actually having the tires a bit softer at the start for more grip is but one benefit. The article you had posted earlier lists many more benefits from the lower pressures which Merc had chosen to bring to the race.

Pirelli and the FIA were very concerned that teams, like Merc, were dodging the rules and actually passing the pressure tests but running more than a pound under the limit on the track. This is why the surprise tests were put into place by Pirelli and the FIA in the first place. Merc and others were getting to 'clever' as your article states.

Merc plain and simple were cutting things to close and got caught. Ferrari had left a healthy safety margin out of respect of the dangers of the high speed Monza track. Merc was only interested it seems in circumventing the safety guidelines with little obvious concern about the repercussions on track.

This is no surprise as Merc/Stuttgart has already proven to all that they do not have a sporting outlook and are only interested in F1 for the marketing and money. Their illegal 3 day testing fiasco is all you need to know about this team.

'Not cool man' as Hamilton would put it.

Here are excerpts from your article for you:

-Background concern

The tyre pressure saga had kicked off earlier in the weekend when Pirelli told the teams that, as a result of the Spa dramas, it wanted to impose higher minimum pressure limits.

After further discussions, figures of 21psi front and 19.5psi rear – representing an increase of 1psi over more normal baselines – were agreed on for Friday. Tyre pressure is significant because it's such a key parameter of car performance, and teams don't like to be forced to go higher than they would like.

As one senior race engineer explained: "For a given track temperature for a given car and given brake temperature and rim heating, there is a pressure where it's optimum for grip, wear and everything else.

"Here, because everything was high, everyone was looking to come down. It helps your pace, wear and everything. If you do a long run 0.5 psi represents a difference in wear and performance."

-Dodging the guidelines

"If we find, during any session, that your stabilized pressures are equal to or lower than the starting pressures, we will give higher starting pressures limit to your team, as agreed with FIA."

This was a response to Pirelli and the FIA's frustration that teams were apparently trying various clever methods to get around the pressure requirement.

In other words, they were passing the test when the tyres went on the cars, but then running below the limit, in some cases with the rears at 18.5psi. Given that this was a question of safety, the FIA was clearly concerned, as were Pirelli.

[overboost]

...................

[stonemonkey]

That's all to do with stabilised temps and pressures during running which I'm sure you'll agree Mercedes were not guilty of anything there, that says there were teams attempting to run with a lower pressure while tyres were up to temp which I accept would be an advantage but not something Mercedes were doing in the race but low pressures and low temps off the start line is not advantageous. Limits are limits and if need were running at that then they did nothing wrong, the limits imposed by pirelli will have a margin of safety within them too so it's not like running at the limit is running on the limit of what's safe or not.

[overboost]

That's all to do with stabilised temps and pressures during running which I'm sure you'll agree Mercedes were not guilty of anything there, that says there were teams attempting to run with a lower pressure while tyres were up to temp which I accept would be an advantage but not something Mercedes were doing in the race but low pressures and low temps off the start line is not advantageous. Limits are limits and if need were running at that then they did nothing wrong, the limits imposed by pirelli will have a margin of safety within them too so it's not like running at the limit is running on the limit of what's safe or not.

That's a good try stonemonkey but absolutely wrong unfortunately!

At Spa the tires were exploding at 18.5 psi so they upped the pressures by 1 psi to 19.5 psi. That 1 psi is the safety margin! So yes it was the limit of what's safe or not. Especially at the speeds seen at Monza!

On to Singapore.

New rules for Singapore to prevent Merc or others from racing on illegal tire pressures!

"Tyre pressure and temperature are related mathematically, but essentially Mercedes knew they could start the race with lower tyre pressures by allowing the tyres to cool in the 5 minutes before the formation lap began for the Monza race.

This will no longer be allowed. If Mercedes choose to inflate their tyres at 100 degrees, the will have to keep the tyre blankets switched on and the tyres up to temperature until the formation lap begins."

http://thejudge13.com/2015/09/18/fia-ty ... clarified/