CookinFlat6 wrote:Horner Spice wrote:“It was like someone had taken his toy away. It took him a while to get to grips with that. It was not something he was used to.
Strange thing is that Horner already said the same even when seb was still at RBR last year - that he was not comfortable with the reduced rear DF on the 2014 cars, as did Helmet Marko.
However just a quick trawl thru this thread will confirm a few members including myself saying pretty much the same exact thing, i remember getting reported by mnm for claiming Seb was matched by webber when he had his TOYS taken away at the start of 2012.
Heres a quote from over a year ago that says pretty much the same as Horner is nowCookinFlat6 wrote:The main thing about the Red Bull situation, unlike the other 2 sec cars like Brawn is the teams treatment of Webber. Seb is claimed great because it appears that Webber cannot match him in any way in the same car thereby making Seb look exceptional
But this is where the distortions start. The cars are not equal, Webber is not treated equally, and when given the chances has matched Seb. And [b]for me everytime Sebs car dos not have exceptional rear downforce and traction, he looks average,, excessive oversteer, poor race craft, mistakes, crashing into others trying to overtake.[/b]
Ask yourselves this, if Red Bull had had Webber come a close second in every race Seb has won, like in Japan 2013, or even beat Seb 40% of the time (like in 2012) would Seb look that good?
In 2010 Seb won 5 times and Webber won 4 times, yet Seb won 3-1 in second half of year after the evidence of Seb favoured (wing-gate)
In 2010 Red Bull won 9 times and 4 of those were 1,2s
Contrast that to the stats of say 2013, its not rocket science. Did Webber suddenly get really bad, yet suddenly matches Seb like in 2010 everytime Sebs car has his trick missing
Senna, Fangio, MS were never beaten by team mates like Di Resta, and always looked good no matter the car they were driving
The facts tell us MS won WDCs in different cars, Alonso has proven himself in different cars, Lewis has led a mid grid team to the front.
Seb has had cars built around him by Newey, has been matched by average teammates, and most alarmingly always looks average when the car doesn't have a particular system.
Yes titles are won by drivers in good cars, yet if we look at the years the WDC and WCC were not won by the same team, we see that Lewis has not won in the best car, Alonso has not won in the best car. Seb has always won in the best car (biggest WCC margins) despite the handicapping of his teammate.
[b]Seb is good, but great drivers do not need to stick a finger up to remind the audience that their car is number 1.[/b] Does anyone here truthfully believe Nick Heidfeld would not have won the WDC in at least 2011 and 2013 with that car?
When has ANY driver looked better than average in a car they're not suited to?? Praise Alonso as much as you like (as people always do) but when did he last win a race? How often does he get on the podium? It's the same for Massa, same for Kimi, even Button...please, stop making Vettel out to be the ONLY driver who underperforms when the car isn't perfect.
And in reference to your 'unequal treatment of team mate' comment - Vettel came into Toro Rosso, delivered more than his team mate, won a race and got promoted. He then did the same at Red Bull and EARNED his respect there. Why SHOULDN'T he reap the advantages from within the team? Some teams - ie Ferrari - are known for their preference of number 1 and 2 drivers - how does a rule like that make Vettel the villain?
And mistakes? I think you'll find that of all the drivers on the grid, Vettel is most certainly one of the few that very rarely make silly driving errors. Last year, though his overall performance compared with his team mate was disappointing, the only BIG mistake he made that I can recall was his spin at Hungary - and even then, he controlled it brilliantly when most others would probably have slammed into the wall.
