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[CookinFlat6]

We should go back to the good old days when only 1 team had a secret veto on the rules and an extra payout off the top, and 1 man had control of the FIA and FOM.

Since FOTA was killed by a couple of teams and the Concorde agreement was replaced by individual bi-lateral agreements things got even less fair.

However when 1 team let the cat out of the bag and revealed the secret deals, things got worse leading to where we are now, with the 1 team with a say becoming the top 5 and control of the rules handed over from the FIA to the 'strategy group' of these 'top teams'

The overall outcome is Merc (or whichever entity has the most dependents) allowed to shape the future and the others finding it more profitable to ditch their dependants who can no longer pay to buy engines in favour of the lifeline of a new dependant more willing to pay for their engine

The biggest clue ofcourse is that Bernie or CVC could easily have bankrolled Marrussia if they were also happy to allow th teams biggest creditor - the engine supplier to pocket some of the CVC/Bernie cash injection.

If Marussias biggest creditor had agreed to the solution put forward by Merc, - to support their own dependant in exchange for unfreeze concessions, their would be an extra plucky backmarker team on the grid now,

Alas, the offer was rejected and a veto was applied to lift the unfreeze

[sagi58]

, Jonathan Noble wrote:">Ex-team boss Gian Carlo Minardi hits out at F1's big teams

Former Formula 1 team boss Gian Carlo Minardi has accused the sport's bigger outfits of being short sighted in blocking Marussia's bid to return to the grid in 2015...

...That decision has infuriated former Minardi boss Gian Carlo Minardi, who says that larger teams should support smaller outfits because it prevents them being exposed to running at the back of the field.

"[It was] an absurd and unsportsmanlike behaviour," said Minardi about the Marussia rejection.

"If you get rid of the two Cinderellas - Marussia and Caterham - then it means shortening the grid.

"Consequently the last row will be occupied by teams with far greater budgets and ambitions - with commercial consequences."...

..."The manufacturers do not want to wait years to grow and achieve positive results; they have commercial and image objectives in the short terms...

...Occasionally Marussia and Caterham would punch above their weight and get one of their cars through to Q2, but more often than not their cars filled up the back of the grid.

As Minardi explains, without them it will now be other teams filling up the bottom slots on the qualifying timesheets.

Reading that makes me wonder just how altruistic Minardi is.
It would seem the only reason he feels Marussia and Caterham
should stay in F1 is to make the other teams look good because
those two teams would stop them from being at the back!!

[Hammer278]

, Jonathan Noble wrote:">Ex-team boss Gian Carlo Minardi hits out at F1's big teams

Former Formula 1 team boss Gian Carlo Minardi has accused the sport's bigger outfits of being short sighted in blocking Marussia's bid to return to the grid in 2015...

...That decision has infuriated former Minardi boss Gian Carlo Minardi, who says that larger teams should support smaller outfits because it prevents them being exposed to running at the back of the field.

"[It was] an absurd and unsportsmanlike behaviour," said Minardi about the Marussia rejection.

"If you get rid of the two Cinderellas - Marussia and Caterham - then it means shortening the grid.

"Consequently the last row will be occupied by teams with far greater budgets and ambitions - with commercial consequences."...

..."The manufacturers do not want to wait years to grow and achieve positive results; they have commercial and image objectives in the short terms...

...Occasionally Marussia and Caterham would punch above their weight and get one of their cars through to Q2, but more often than not their cars filled up the back of the grid.

As Minardi explains, without them it will now be other teams filling up the bottom slots on the qualifying timesheets.

Reading that makes me wonder just how altruistic Minardi is.
It would seem the only reason he feels Marussia and Caterham
should stay in F1 is to make the other teams look good because
those two teams would stop them from being at the back!!

Wow and you manage to miss his point in a big way.

Look past his personality to the bigger picture, he's trying to say that this could cause a bit of a chain reaction with the bigger teams probably bowing out soon since they're going to look bad coming last from now onwards. Sponsors will get choosier than usual since there are less moving billboards on track

[sagi58]

Reading that makes me wonder just how altruistic Minardi is.
It would seem the only reason he feels Marussia and Caterham
should stay in F1 is to make the other teams look good because
those two teams would stop them from being at the back!!

Wow and you manage to miss his point in a big way.

Look past his personality to the bigger picture, he's trying to say that this could cause a bit of a chain reaction with the bigger teams probably bowing out soon since they're going to look bad coming last from now onwards. Sponsors will get choosier than usual since there are less moving billboards on track

His personality? Well, that's a bias I don't have, since I don't know the man or his personality.
And, I did understand what he's getting at; but, that doesn't change the fact that the "lesser"
teams are expected to make up the numbers, rather than be a real threat at the front.

[CookinFlat6]

, Jonathan Noble wrote:">Ex-team boss Gian Carlo Minardi hits out at F1's big teams

Former Formula 1 team boss Gian Carlo Minardi has accused the sport's bigger outfits of being short sighted in blocking Marussia's bid to return to the grid in 2015...

...That decision has infuriated former Minardi boss Gian Carlo Minardi, who says that larger teams should support smaller outfits because it prevents them being exposed to running at the back of the field.

"[It was] an absurd and unsportsmanlike behaviour," said Minardi about the Marussia rejection.

"If you get rid of the two Cinderellas - Marussia and Caterham - then it means shortening the grid.

"Consequently the last row will be occupied by teams with far greater budgets and ambitions - with commercial consequences."...

..."The manufacturers do not want to wait years to grow and achieve positive results; they have commercial and image objectives in the short terms...

...Occasionally Marussia and Caterham would punch above their weight and get one of their cars through to Q2, but more often than not their cars filled up the back of the grid.

As Minardi explains, without them it will now be other teams filling up the bottom slots on the qualifying timesheets.

Reading that makes me wonder just how altruistic Minardi is.
It would seem the only reason he feels Marussia and Caterham
should stay in F1 is to make the other teams look good because
those two teams would stop them from being at the back!!

Wow and you manage to miss his point in a big way.

Look past his personality to the bigger picture, he's trying to say that this could cause a bit of a chain reaction with the bigger teams probably bowing out soon since they're going to look bad coming last from now onwards. Sponsors will get choosier than usual since there are less moving billboards on track

She could be talking about the latest news from Autosport, that shows that Ferrari were the slowest team through the speed trap at Jerez, with only the Mclaren team slower, and MLaren ofcourse confirmed they were not going fast. This ofcourse ties in with the Ferraris being much lighter by a margin than the others yet unable to develop the power to push a lighter car at the diminishing returns end of the wind resistance battle

Which would mean Ferrari would be better off keeping Marrussia in - If this is what Minardi was getting at, however I agree with you that it does seem like he is saying the big teams dont hang around if they are last whereas the independent outfits who have always been part of F1 see it as part and parcel of racing and were therefore an important part of the ecosystem

[sagi58]

I'll just sit back and watch you two discuss what I mean.
It's quite entertaining!