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[What's Burning?]

Mercedes are rumoured to have found a further 50 bhp which will likely increase their winning margine despite the rules unfreeze loophole to help the less able engine makers catch up.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... 015-report

I really hope that's not the case, because I can't take another year of whining by the usuals in the sport and forums.

I know what you mean WB, the forum will just be filled with people complaining about how far ahead of everyone else Williams is

You joke, but given the fact that Williams now have a whole year under their belt of knowing how to integrate the Merc lump, I'm looking at a year long battle between them. Maybe, just maybe your prediction was a year (two years really) too early.

Oh I hope so, I don't care which team it is but I want a 4-way duel for the drivers title between multiple teams again!

Oh that's not going to happen. I mean Williams will have a firm choke hold on 2nd in the WCC, but don't expect anything more than that. What this will do is make our fantasy pool weekends a lot less predictable as I don't think we'll see nearly as many Merc 1-2. Just more Willaims and less Red Bull visibility on the podium.

[Hammer278]

Can't wait for testing to start and see Mercedes shatter the morale of everyone else again.

[overboost]

Honda hoping for 'fair competition' amid rule loopholes

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... 88471.html

FIA considers Honda engine rule changes

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... 88829.html


Let's hope that some sanity prevails in this engine 'rules' fiasco and that Honda can have fair competition with the rest. As fair as it can be with engine development being choked off by the tokens that are still being upheld. What a mess.

A dismal start to the season is on the way with some teams using last years engines for the first four races, that should be a 2.5-3 second disadvantage to Merc! Dismal racing.

Maybe though this will be the final season of F1's rock bottom years as 2016 could have brand new rules and competitive engines.

[LiamCatterson]

To be fair, even if Mercedes are dominating the sport this year, there isn't a chance in hell they'll do it for 2016

[CookinFlat6]

Honda hoping for 'fair competition' amid rule loopholes

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... 88471.html

FIA considers Honda engine rule changes

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... 88829.html


Let's hope that some sanity prevails in this engine 'rules' fiasco and that Honda can have fair competition with the rest. As fair as it can be with engine development being choked off by the tokens that are still being upheld. What a mess.

A dismal start to the season is on the way with some teams using last years engines for the first four races, that should be a 2.5-3 second disadvantage to Merc! Dismal racing.

Maybe though this will be the final season of F1's rock bottom years as 2016 could have brand new rules and competitive engines.

Honda want the same fair competition as the others have, so after the unfreeze it's now fair for all. Horner is no longer whinging so what's going on here?

What are we moaning about now?

Dismal racing because Ferrari changed the rules to allow them to start the season with the 2014 engine that's was already a donkey? And they are late with homework so need more time to bring a better engine later in the season is dismal indeed, what a lame cop out. So what can we blame now?

Ah, the tokens. The tokens are a currency system. I.e the engine makers agreed to spend exactly the same amount each to prevent an engine price war. And now that 1 team is losing badly someone thinks the spending limit should be dropped to allow the loser to double his spend to catch up with a team that would increase their spend etc etc etc with no change in losers position.

And we looking forward to brand new engines and regulations in 2016? So Honda can scrap their engine after a year and build another? And this would be fair on them if they had a better engine than the loser

Reminds me of an episode of donkey races

[What's Burning?]

Honda hoping for 'fair competition' amid rule loopholes

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... 88471.html

FIA considers Honda engine rule changes

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... 88829.html


Let's hope that some sanity prevails in this engine 'rules' fiasco and that Honda can have fair competition with the rest. As fair as it can be with engine development being choked off by the tokens that are still being upheld. What a mess.

A dismal start to the season is on the way with some teams using last years engines for the first four races, that should be a 2.5-3 second disadvantage to Merc! Dismal racing.

Maybe though this will be the final season of F1's rock bottom years as 2016 could have brand new rules and competitive engines.

Honda want the same fair competition as the others have, so after the unfreeze it's now fair for all. Horner is no longer whinging so what's going on here?

What are we moaning about now?

Ah, the tokens. The tokens are a currency system. I.e the engine makers agreed to spend exactly the same amount each to prevent an engine price war. And now that 1 team is loosing badly someone thinks the spending limit should be dropped to allow the loser to double his spend to catch up with a team that would increase their spend etc etc etc with no change in losers position.

And we looking forward to brand new engines and regulations in 2016? So Honda can scrap their engine after a year and build another? And this would be fair on them if they had a better engine than the loser

Reminds me of an episode of donkey races

The argumentative contortions are interesting to observ aren't they? It's as if they're meant to convince himself more than to sway us.

[sagi58]

Honda hoping for 'fair competition' amid rule loopholes...

If it were up to me, I'm not sure I would know how to vote.
I mean, it's not fair that Honda has had carte blanche to work
on their engine to date, since they weren't part of F1 in 2014;
but, now that they are, shouldn't they too be governed by the
same rules?

YET, I can understand why the FIA would insist they work within
the same framework the other manufacturers had to, last year.

Tough call.

[CookinFlat6]

YET, I can understand why the FIA would insist they work within
the same framework the other manufacturers had to, last year.

Tough call.

Bet you still can't understand why others were insisting Ferrari work to the same framework that the others like Merc had to in the lead up to the engine unfreeze. That was easy to understand, Ferrari had to be allowed to change the rules to help them but now Honda should have to abide by the rules of last year? It's now a tough decision is it?
Ob seems to think it's only fair to unfreeze Honda as well to allow them fair competition

Hypocrisy is in the air!

Honda should be allowed the same fair chance to whip Ferrari this season but we don't hear Horner and Ferrari complaining to the FIA for Honda. Just like we didn't hear boiler speaking up to side with RBR when it wasn't cynical self interest... Err hold on

the entertainment factor returns to F1

[What's Burning?]

I'm looking forward to the moans and groans come August when Mercedes is once again beyond any constructor's reach. Same harvest of sour grames.

[CookinFlat6]

I am looking forward to the moans and groans when Ferraris delayed engine update is found to be woefully lacking and the rules become restrictive and unfair once more

probably just after the Monza race. They should be a venture capital owned merchandising outfit by then

[overboost]

Honda hoping for 'fair competition' amid rule loopholes...

If it were up to me, I'm not sure I would know how to vote.
I mean, it's not fair that Honda has had carte blanche to work
on their engine to date, since they weren't part of F1 in 2014;
but, now that they are, shouldn't they too be governed by the
same rules?

YET, I can understand why the FIA would insist they work within
the same framework the other manufacturers had to, last year.

Tough call.

But it is not the same framework! Last season the teams in their first season had 5 engines. This season only 4 are allowed including Honda. So either give Honda the 5th engine that the others enjoyed last season or simply let Honda have the same development opportunities as the rest. I prefer the latter as then everyone is working to the same rule book and the racing is not adversely affected or held back.

To fix the bigger inequity remove the premature 'token' system that has guaranteed continued Mercedes dominance (including the 2015 wdc and wcc!) Why hold back Renault,Honda and Ferrari? It just makes for poor racing for the fans of the sport.

The competition on track and in the engine factories should be free and open and governed by the same rules for all imo. It is only fair!

[What's Burning?]

The competition on track and in the engine factories should be free and open and governed by the same rules for all imo. It is only fair!

Fair would be to keep things as agreed by all, as opposed to having Honda design, test, build and develop an engine where they get to throw it out next year because the regulations are changed to accommodate the vendors that couldn't build a proper engine to begin. Same rules for all is what you were complaining about originally, go figure.

[overboost]

The competition on track and in the engine factories should be free and open and governed by the same rules for all imo. It is only fair!

Fair would be to keep things as agreed by all, as opposed to having Honda design, test, build and develop an engine where they get to throw it out next year because the regulations are changed to accommodate the vendors that couldn't build a proper engine to begin. Same rules for all is what you were complaining about to begin with. Go figure.

The rules are broken! Ill considered and poorly written. And now different rules for different teams/engines.

As for Honda's 'advantage' - they haven't even turned a racing or testing lap yet. We all saw last year how long into the season some teams had to struggle getting the package to work correctly.

To avoid the engines from being discarded next season the rules around restricted development should be scrapped to allow investment in this engine package. With the additional investment and hopefully performance increases the strategy group would be reluctant to change the rules next year.

edited for clarity

[CookinFlat6]

The teams? You mean 2 teams but not 5 others and not the engine makers either? Renault don't want unlimited spending unless you have a link that says so, I'm sure you can show where Ferrari still want this?

So 2 teams should decide what 7 do?

And that's fair?

Maybe we should all boycott F1

[CookinFlat6]

To avoid the engines from being discarded next season the rules around restricted development should be scrapped to allow investment in this engine package. With the additional investment and hopefully performance increases the teams would be reluctant to change the rules next year.

Do you even think before you type?

With the huge increased spending that doesn't guarantee any change in RELATIVE performance the teams (Ferrari) SHOULD be happy enough not to change the rules (HUGE INCREASE IN SPENDING)

So a couple of losers want everyone to spend more to stay the same otherwise they will want everyone to spend more to stay the same

Well done OB