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#430932
Ok, due to a 'loophole' the FIA has allowed the engine makers to bypass Merc and use their tokens whenever they want. So they can start the season with one engine and update token by token.

FERRARI AND RENAULT CAN BEAT MERC!!!! - no more excuses
Teams are still only allowed 4 engines though so we are looking at the loser engine makers producing 4 updates, an update each new engine

Lets hope those update work ortherwise.... :yikes:

Hahah, so no more bitching, the teams can use their tokens whenever they want (they didnt use them up last year). So its an unfreeze but its not unlimited development which means NOTHING WILL CHANGE for the losers as they can build brand new engines
:hooli-popcorn:

By Jonathan Noble Friday, January 2nd 2015, 14:43 GMT
Singapore GP start 2014

Formula 1's current manufacturers will now be allowed to develop their engines during the 2015 season, after the FIA accepted there was a loophole in the regulations.

Mercedes' rivals Ferrari and Renault pushed hard in late-2014 for F1's engine freeze to be eased to give them more time to introduce much-needed upgrades, rather than having to complete all changes to a pre-season deadline.

But with Mercedes standing firm and refusing to concede much ground, it appeared that Ferrari and Renault's hopes of extra time were dashed.

However, as AUTOSPORT first revealed in December, the situation changed dramatically when it was suggested to the FIA that the engine rules did not actually stipulate when a final engine had to be lodged for 2015.

Although the FIA had always been under the impression that new engines would have to be homologated for the first race, this was never explicitly laid down in the rules.

An FIA spokesman said: "It was always envisaged, although not explicitly stated in the rules, that manufacturers would have to deal with modifications on the engine within the constraints of the rules, and then submit their 2015 engine [at the first race].

"It is simple, but when you read it [the rule book], it doesn't say that unfortunately."

Ferrari's technical director James Allison brought up the matter in a technical regulations working group meeting with the FIA at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, and there were further discussions on the subject at a Strategy Group meeting before Christmas.

With the FIA admitting that the wording of the regulations was open to interpretation, it has subsequently told teams that the "most logical and robust" way forward is to accept that there is no actual date for 2015 homologation.

It means that manufacturers now have the option of introducing upgrades to their engines throughout the season - as long as they stick to the 32 development token limit that is laid down within the rules and do not exceed the four-engine per car limit for the campaign.

In a note that was sent from the FIA's Charlie Whiting to all teams over the Christmas period, it was made clear that the upgrades would be allowed to come on tap at any point over 2015.

"As it is not specifically stated... when a power unit may be modified in accordance with appendix 4 [of the technical regulations], we feel that the weighted items (32 in this case) may be introduced at any time during the 2015 season," said the note, a copy of which has been seen by AUTOSPORT.

"The basic homologated power unit will remain that which was homologated for the 2014 season, including any changes made in accordance with paragraph 1 (c) of appendix 4 [of the sporting regulations]."

NO DEVELOPMENT FREEDOM FOR HONDA

The interpretation that allows Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault to bring in developments over the course of 2015 will not apply to Honda because it is a new manufacturer.

Although the regulations do not specifically state dates for the Japanese car maker to submit its homologated unit, the FIA is standing by its view that it must stick to the February 28 date that the current manufacturers faced last year.

The Whiting note added: "As the existing manufacturers were obliged to homologate their power units by 28 February 2014 it would seem fair and equitable to ask a new manufacturer to homologate their power unit before February 28 2015.

"We therefore consider this to be a requirement for a new power unit manufacturer."

HOW THE FREEZE RULES WORK

During discussions to frame the new turbo V6 regulations, an engine freeze was agreed to prevent costs getting out of control.

Once a power unit design was lodged with the FIA on February 28 2014, changes were only going to be accepted during the season for "reliability, safety or cost-saving reasons."

Mercedes F1 engine cover
However, each winter a limited number of modifications would still be allowed.

The scope of the change would be limited by a 'token' system that related to the individual components on the engine and its hybrid systems.

The entire power unit is made up of 66 'tokens' - which are weighted individually between one and three depending on how important they are.

Ahead of 2015, five of these tokens were 'frozen' completely - but there was scope to review the 61 remaining items if a manufacturer felt improvements were needed.

However, it would not be allowed to change all the parts. The rules are clear that only 32 tokens - approximately 48 per cent of the power unit - could be used for 2015.

The issue surrounding the recent FIA clarification relates to when these tokens need to be used by.

One view was that it had to be done by the first race, but Ferrari and Renault have successfully argued that a loophole in the rules means there is no deadline.

Longer term, the restrictions on how much development can be done increase each year.

So for 2016, 38 per cent of the engine can be changed, going down to 30 percent in '17, 23 per cent in '18 and just five per cent for '19 and '20.
#430942
So Ferrari and Renault have ' exploited a loophole in the rules' . They taken advantage of the FIA's inability to clearly state what the rules actually are. Fair enough. Now they have every opportunity to get on a par with Merc, no excuses now. But hang on, isn't exploiting the FIA's unclear rules exactly what Merc did regarding the tyre test? And I've heard that called cheating in some quarters. So are Ferrari and Renault now cheating? I'd say not, but according to some perhaps they are.......
The ones I feel sorry for in this are Honda ( not Boullier, his whinging and moaning has now bought hm a quite considerable disadvantage) But I think it's harsh on Honda.
#430944
I am not sure if it is harsh on Honda though. They will be a year behind on "real world" experience. However they will of gleened some information from Mclaren about what they learnt last year. However they will of been able to throw a lot of development on known "real world" quantities.

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#430945
They're still limited to the same number of tokens at the same schedule. This does impact Honda as they will not have a year to develop a path and gain experience in what needs to be developed and in what priority. So they may wind up falling back through the season. The problem with tokens is that you can use a token to upgrade a component to gain something today, but you may need to change it again tomorrow and need to use up a token again.

So this is it, mercedes loses their advantage, no more whining. I can't wait to see what the usuals whine about next though. Because you see it's not about Mercedes winning, it's about the discomfort of losing and that's not going to go away any time soon. Let's see which one of the two proves me right first.
#430946
I would imagine there would be more than 4 updates. I would imagine the non customer teams would get trial updates before the factory teams get an update

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Each team is allowed 4 physical sets of engines and components, therefore there can only be 4 usable updates without penalties. Every team must receive every update at the same time. At the start of the season the teams will get only 1 set of engines instead of the whole 4. And as they need as they need the next one, the rest will have to get the same release - according to the regs, unless ferrari have found a way to 'loophole' them


They're still limited to the same number of tokens at the same schedule. This does impact Honda as they will not have a year to develop a path and gain experience in what needs to be developed and in what priority. So they may wind up falling back through the season. The problem with tokens is that you can use a token to upgrade a component to gain something today, but you may need to change it again tomorrow and need to use up a token again.

So this is it, mercedes loses their advantage, no more whining. I can't wait to see what the usuals whine about next though. Because you see it's not about Mercedes winning, it's about the discomfort of losing and that's not going to go away any time soon. Let's see which one of the two proves me right first.


Its completely unfair on Honda - they are now in the same position against the others that the others were in against merc - they are not allowed to change anything the rest of the year wether the others are much better or not - That alone makes a complete farce of the 'loophole'
#430947
I think once people think this through then they will realise that, unless Ferrari and Renault have a way of splitting the turbo that requires a bit more time but still doable with the tokens avaialble, then this change means little. It will actually work against those like Ferrari who will now have more confusion and chances for disaster than before.

All it means is they can use up their tokens during the year so instead of having the best update at the start they can introduce it at the last race, which would be handy were it not for the fact that from the first race is when Merc start their advantage

It could also point to why Renault didnt use up their tokens for 2015, maybe they knew something

Shows how corrupt F1 is as Merc have already readily endorsed the loophole and for them its beeter than the deal they offered of more tokens, now its the same.
#430948
The more I think about it the more spreading it across the year can cause more problems.

Engine revision 1 change part A for better performance

Bit of R+D

Engine Revision 2 Change part B however it is fouling part A. Do you compromise part B to fit? Or do you change part A again, using more credits.


The only plus point is that it people more time for R+D.

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#430950
The more I think about it the more spreading it across the year can cause more problems.

Engine revision 1 change part A for better performance

Bit of R+D

Engine Revision 2 Change part B however it is fouling part A. Do you compromise part B to fit? Or do you change part A again, using more credits.


The only plus point is that it people more time for R+D.

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Um... and that was the point of trying to reduce cost! :banghead:

Pandora's box is open. I'm also not sure of what is or isn't allowed as far as modifications. For example, if you change an engine to a new rev, that then becomes your default engine and any subsequent engine used has to be based on that one... ?!?!?
Last edited by What's Burning? on 03 Jan 15, 14:16, edited 1 time in total.
#430952
For that to work Jabs, all wet races will have to come in the last 5 races on the last engine update for that last engine.

Remember once you start using a physical engine it's gotta last 5 races so unless they have their updates at the start of the year like the rules were meant to be, it becomes a mess as each update is fixed for the 5 races that engine does

It's gonna be worse for a team like Ferrari who will have 4 chances for an update that goes backwards or doesnt work

Merc will start with the best engine and can update when and if they really have to whilst the others will be having Jerez 2014 type fiasco tests every few races IN the free practice sessions

It's truly a case of be careful what you wish for
#430953
The more I think about it the more spreading it across the year can cause more problems.

Engine revision 1 change part A for better performance

Bit of R+D

Engine Revision 2 Change part B however it is fouling part A. Do you compromise part B to fit? Or do you change part A again, using more credits.


The only plus point is that it people more time for R+D.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Um... and that was the point of trying to reduce cost! :banghead:

Pandora's box is open. I'm also not sure of what is or isn't allowed as far as modifications. For example, if you change an engine to a new rev, that then becomes your default engine and any subsequent engine used has to be based on that one... ?!?!?


I think they can produce their final homologation model at the end, which is actually worse as they are not forced to update each iteration and so Ferrari will be going backwards and forwards
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