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[overboost]

Yes McLaren who have stated that the engine freeze is holding them back from closing the gap to Merc.
.

And finally OB demonstrates how little he sees when he looks, and how little he thinks before regurgitating - theres the proof.

Let this quote - (which I have also quoted before Ob does his usual party trick of removing non-sense 'items' in his irrational responses) remain here for posterity, when they marvel at how propaganda dominated F1

According to the chief whip for the DAF, McLaren who had the same Merc engine that the engine freeze held them back from developing to close the gap to the other identical Merc engines are OBs example. So without the engine freeze Mclaren would have developed their Merc engine themselves after each race with Button as chief designer. And Honda who say they expect to win from Australia next year must be ecstatic to hear that their engine is already holding McLaren back from the level they achieved competing with the Merc and Williams teams WHEN THEY HAD THE SAME ENGINE

Pure class - right up there with 'MS developed the V6 turbos during V8 races

You truly are a star OB (even if not a golden one)

cookinflat6 please stop with the mindless posts. You are just making a spectacle of yourself.

The 'them' in my post refers to everybody catching up to Merc as per EB quote. And yes next year McLaren/Honda will be part of that group looking to compete with Merc.

Before you open fire mindlessly it is good to ask for clarification or to actually read what has been referred to if you don't understand, in this case Bouillier's quotes.

Surely this is just you being pedantic and you aren't claiming that you know better than Eric Bouillier, a Merc customer, when he says that the freeze disallows competition, "If you disallow the competition, goes against the spirit of the sport" and everyone is being held back, "if you could unfreeze the engine regs, you will see some catch up." and that Mercedes have benefited from the freeze "they benefited from the fact that the regulations are locked with the engines being frozen".

Please just acknowledge that what EB is saying is true and that you don't claim to know better.

[CookinFlat6]

As far as I'm concerned, BOTH 2014 AND 2015 will be seasons where the best man/team won; BUT..........

I know you have only been following F1 a couple of years but there has only been 1 year in the last quarter century when anyone COULDNT say the best man/team won: BUT.....

That year was 2008, when the man that won DID NOT have the best car - The driver with the popstar GF that is a publicity ***** and is very easy to understand because she conducts ALL her life thru social media, and so even those who dont bother with social media because its not the real face of these stars, can KNOW enough about this particular driver GF to declare she is not bringing value to the deal.

See if you can equate which name goes where

[What's Burning?]

Reading some of the year's wrap ups and laughed as I once again came across this. It's hard for a Ferrari fan to accept that their deity could make a mistake and now has to work doubly hard and pay long term consequences because of it. Nope, much easier to say it's Mercedes' fault as they're stifling competition. Suckit Yo.

GPUpdate 15 August 2014 – Former Ferrari engine chief Luca Marmorini has revealed that he was told to sacrifice the potential of the new power unit as the team claimed it would make up for the performance deficit through aerodynamic improvements.

Marmorini oversaw the development of Ferrari's power unit but departed the outfit when his organisation was reshuffled at the end of July, after the team claimed just two podiums across the opening 11 races of the year.

Marmorini claims that Ferrari Chief Designer Nikolas Tombazis assured him that the power loss from the engine side would be compensated by the aerodynamic improvements made to the F14T, compared to recent Ferrari machines.

"In short: it was made ​​to pass the idea that all the woes of the F14T are the fault of the power unit," Marmorini is quoted as saying by Italian journalist Leo Turrini. "As if in a company with the history of Ferrari had forgotten how to make engines! I mean, I accept any accusation, but do not tell that to Maranello [as] there are people who do not know the business, the turbo, hybrids, etcetera.

"With my colleagues I packed a power unit with a certain size, ie, [a] smaller version of the Mercedes and Renault, because we were asked by the project manager of the car, Mr. Tombazis.

[racechick]

So ferrari insiders are saying they got it wrong. Renault have admitted much the same. Yet some, like Horner, still cling to the safety net that it's all Mercs fault. LOL

[The Second Coming]

So ferrari insiders are saying they got it wrong. Renault have admitted much the same. Yet some, like Horner, still cling to the safety net that it's all Mercs fault. LOL

Mercedes also had an unfair and unsporting advantage of having a large screen on their steering wheels compared to others. It afforded their drivers more immediate unfettered access to their car's performance data. Something is very wrong about that! Before too long, we will be hearing that Lewis' lower body fat count is stifling competition. He's too bloody fit.

If we're not winning as we're accustomed,it has to be someone's fault.

Shamefully fun!

[racechick]

[overboost]

So ferrari insiders are saying they got it wrong. Renault have admitted much the same. Yet some, like Horner, still cling to the safety net that it's all Mercs fault. LOL

Yes it looks like the Ferrari power and aero depts could have been working together in a more coordinated fashion (this is probably why the heads of these groups have been replaced).

But at the same time Mercedes insiders are saying that they had gained an advantage from the freeze vs their competitors. Most of the gains in fact.

"They benefited from the fact that they did a very good job and they benefited from the fact that the regulations are locked with the engines being frozen, "Most of the gains they have had come from the engine and they will for a couple of years until everybody can match them in terms of development." - Eric Boullier.

[What's Burning?]

Exactly... so why continue whining about it? Just work hard and catch up quickly, yes? We can close this thread now.

[The Second Coming]

So ferrari insiders are saying they got it wrong. Renault have admitted much the same. Yet some, like Horner, still cling to the safety net that it's all Mercs fault. LOL

Yes it looks like the Ferrari power and aero depts could have been working together in a more coordinated fashion (this is probably why the heads of these groups have been replaced).

But at the same time Mercedes insiders are saying that they had gained an advantage from the freeze vs their competitors. Most of the gains in fact.

"They benefited from the fact that they did a very good job and they benefited from the fact that the regulations are locked with the engines being frozen, "Most of the gains they have had come from the engine and they will for a couple of years until everybody can match them in terms of development." - Eric Boullier.

Boullier is the Mercedes insider? I use iMacs for my publishing company and I know everything useful there is to know about iOS based on how I use the platform. Am I then an Apple insider? Seriously? Boullier is now going to say anything he can to paint a disadvantaged image of his team now that they are not using Mercedes engines. Maybe I was napping during his press conferences this season when he was crying out to the heavens, "Somebody call the police! We at McLaren are enjoying an advantage and I for one can't take it anymore. The guilt is too much. Now excuse me while I go find a ledge from which to perch...just before I wipe my tear-filled eyes and pitch off into the sweet by-and-by. God forgive me"

Seriously...

[overboost]

Exactly... so why continue whining about it? Just work hard and catch up quickly, yes? We can close this thread now.

Well it is good to see at least one person come around and agree that Merc's continuing advantage is due to the engine freeze and the resulting lack of competition! That wasn't so hard was it?!

Unfortunately the others can't just "work hard and catch up quickly" as you put it due to the engine rules. They have to work hard but can only catch up slowly if at all in 2015. We will see.

As for closing the discussion I think that the aftermath of not changing the freeze rules will have a effects continuing into next season.

[What's Burning?]

Exactly... so why continue whining about it? Just work hard and catch up quickly, yes? We can close this thread now.

Well it is good t see at least one person agree that Merc's continuing advantage is due to the engine freeze and the resulting lack of competition! That wasn't so hard was it?!

Unfortunately the others can't just "work hard and catch up quickly" as you put it due to the engine rules. They have to work hard but can only catch up slowly if at all in 2015. We will see.

As for closing the discussion I think that the aftermath of not changing the freeze rules will have a effects continuing into next season.

That's the price you pay in F1 for being wrong. Ferrari had to get rid of half their staff because of it. It's clearly not Mercedes' fault that Ferrari are an embarrassment to Enzo's legacy.

You want them to now be given a free pass to catch up, on top of the 90 million they already get for showing up and for what? To offer mediocre performances and second rate design descisons? I'd rather get the competition from William, Force India, Honda and even Red Bull if they continue to improve their weak engine that only got them three wins last year. Maybe it's not so weak since no other Mercedes team could manage that. So We should continue to make exceptions for Ferrari and Red Bull just because.

I'm so looking forward to 2015.

[CookinFlat6]

The funniest part is how the b!tches and whingers continue to confuse the teams with engine makers and confuse themselves by claiming McLarens oprotests are meaningful even though they started only after becoming a rival engine maker customer - What do we expect though when FOM have been tardy in educating the less able members of the public about the turbo hybrid and how its a completely different engine to the NA concept. I keep hearing 'the teams' this and that

The teams are
Merc - happy with engine
Williams - happy with engine
Force India - happy with engine even with little budget
Lotus - already say the Merc engine is cheaper and better value

Sauber - admit they screwed up without the engine
Ferrari - admit they forgot the aero regs were now engine regs, admit they messed up for 2014 and for 2015 all on their own

STR - only do what RBR want
RBR - what can we say - moaners, cheats, designer leaves because his aero regs changed and he cant compete, The team have rigged races and stifled competition for 4 years

Mclaren - Say Hondas engine is powerful enough and their only worry is reliability - honda says they expect to win from first race

What about the engine makers then?
Ferrari - sacked everyone, dont have the word integrate in lalaland, 2 divisions under the same roof communicating by email, politics, buying a turbo from a third party and bolting it on - under powered by design in an engine reg era
Merc - offered their ERS to the 2 losers, offered extra development tokes to the 2 losers (who didnt even use up the first lot )
Renault - say the opposite to Horner - they charge the most, say they spent too little AND ADMIT THE REGS GIVE THEM AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO CATCH UP

The major expense for all the F1 teams in 2014 was the development of the new V6 turbo power units, but Taffin disagrees with suggestions that the cost of the engines will remain as high.

In fact, he believes it is a certainty that the price of development of the power units will drop over time.

"That's what is going to happen, it's inevitable," Taffin told crash.net.

"The regulations are made for this. I think the criticism is not about the regulations over the next six or seven years, it's the current cost.

"Everyone is looking at a window which is not the right size, so this regulation has been set for that long and we are looking at the first year which is obviously the most expensive year."

So its just Horner leading the gullible up the path - probably to impress Minging Spice with his relevance and importance

oh what splendid fun is a holiday at the F1 themed cartoon theme park called lalaland.........

[overboost]

Exactly... so why continue whining about it? Just work hard and catch up quickly, yes? We can close this thread now.

Well it is good t see at least one person agree that Merc's continuing advantage is due to the engine freeze and the resulting lack of competition! That wasn't so hard was it?!

Unfortunately the others can't just "work hard and catch up quickly" as you put it due to the engine rules. They have to work hard but can only catch up slowly if at all in 2015. We will see.

As for closing the discussion I think that the aftermath of not changing the freeze rules will have a effects continuing into next season.

That's the price you pay in F1 for being wrong. Ferrari had to get rid of half their staff because of it. It's clearly not Mercedes' fault that Ferrari are an embarrassment to Enzo's legacy.

You want them to now be given a free pass to catch up, on top of the 90 million they already get for showing up and for what? To offer mediocre performances and second rate design descisons? I'd rather get the competition from William, Force India, Honda and even Red Bull if they continue to improve their weak engine that only got them three wins last year. Maybe it's not so weak since no other Mercedes team could manage that. So We should continue to make exceptions for Ferrari and Red Bull just because.

I'm so looking forward to 2015.

No free pass!

The rules are flawed and have handed (inadvertently) a technology advantage to Merc. No one is saying to give Ferrari or Red Bull/Renault and their customers a free pass, what is being said is that freezing engines before they are of a mature design has failed and that the rules should be relaxed to allow the others a chance to catch up, just a chance. The on track 'product' has suffered with one team in a separate class and can only be improved with free competition imo.

I am not sure what Ferrari's financial arrangements have to do with the engine rules.

It is obvious though that the impact of the engine rules far overrides team budgets with lesser budgeted teams doing better than teams with the larger budgets. Teams are not able to spend what they would like to on the engines as they are frozen, they are forced to actually waste money trying to make up the difference somewhere else, on aero etc., which just can't overcome the vast engine deficits.

[The Second Coming]

This says it all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motors ... wered.html

Amen, brother Johnson!

[CookinFlat6]

It is obvious though that the impact of the engine rules far overrides team budgets with lesser budgeted teams doing better than teams with the larger budgets. Teams are not able to spend what they would like to on the engines as they are frozen, they are forced to actually waste money trying to make up the difference somewhere else, on aero etc., which just can't overcome the vast engine deficits.

Why do you show so little respect to fellow members by continuing to lie after repeatedly told the truth by many different members? Its getting very alarming, like we are indulging some kind of personal issues you have with society.

Teams do not develop engines - lesser budget and higher budget spend exactly the same on engines, that has been the case for 20 years

Are you not capable of doing some cursory investigation into the regs and rules of F1?

I am starting to suspect that some 'members' on here are software robots designed by RBR with the money they saved by not blueprinting their Renault engine back at Milton Keynes