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[overboost]

Its so funny yet sad that it could be a stage drama for all the family at christmas

Red Bull built their whole chassis and tweaked Renault engine to exploit the last Aero era. No one could compete as the RBR floor and its flexy bits were too well integrated to be pinned down. They used the under powered part of the Renault engine to bring engine mapping trickery the others could not use, and at the same time they kept the much better fuel usage part of the Renault engine. This type of unlevel playing field kept them in trinkets for 4 years with other unable to catch up, oh I forgot to mention the amount of money they spent whilst Merc, Sauber, Marusia, HRT, Caterham and Williams were nobly sticking to the RRA ( that Ferrari and RBR torpedoed by stabbing the rest in the back and then killing Fota)

Did Merc or its fans moan and b!tch without even bothering to go and learn about different engine regs and different engine parts and specs???

Nope they were too busy preparing for the next opportunity that F1 provides every few years (regulatory era change) and they aced it even better than RBR did the last aero one in 2009, and better than Fer...actually scrap that, Ferrari have never been organised enough to plan ahead and ace anything, they always rely on vetos and the as yet undefined 'extra help' Bernie has confirmed they get on top of the 90 mill and the veto on rules etc, as well as having their ex TPs head FIA and maybe FOM as well. And true to form Ferraris president confirms that they were too busy trying to cheat off track to actually try do any COMPETITIVENESS for 2015 and so they have to write off the year

Any guess who is cleverly preparing for the next reg era shift already, while the others are still moaning and trying to go back in time????

Clue - they already got their towels on the best seats by the pool for the after party in AbuDhabi 2020

Its quality comedy

More cookinflat6 fairytales. Please explain exactly what has Ferrari vetoed in relation to the engine freeze rules?

And cookin it was Mercedes who were cheating with their private 'black helmet only' testing sessions last season in Spain.

[racechick]

mercedes had permission for that tyre yeast from Charlie Whiting.

[darwin dali]

mercedes had permission for that tyre yeast from Charlie Whiting.

They had an infection?

[What's Burning?]

... and Mercedes bought the go pro that caused Schumacher's injury.

Why argue with irrationality?

[overboost]

mercedes had permission for that tyre yeast from Charlie Whiting.

Actually Merc needed permission from the rest of the teams to run that test, but they kept it secret. And we do know that Whiting wasn't in a position to grant permission in the first place! Maybe it was Whiting though who advised them to buy a couple of black helmets to at least try to protect their drivers reputations!

I don't know what 'off track cheating' cookinflat6 is accusing Ferrari of as he provides no information or links. Probably he just made that up.

[The Second Coming]

Tyre test. Kinda clutching at straws now, aren't we.

The overriding fact is, the other non-Mercedes powered teams got shown up badly. And I'm sure that doesn't sit well with their sponsors either. In F1, there is either dominance and/or aspirations of dominance (most recently voiced, our Ron of McLaren fame). When Horner, the ring-leader in this whole messy business, was faced with questions about their diffuser/chassis advantage in recent past, his only memorable response was " ." It pains him to now look round the Mercedes garage and see . I might suggest to all, despite the rifle shots, in the end, there will be no white flag with Mercedes crawling from out the nether bushes. Like all other rumblings and consternation for various issues from the past, this too will fall with a resounding thud! All will need to come to terms with their failure, work on those failures with hopes of making it better. That's what Mercedes did (within the confines of agreed upon rules/regs) and we have seen the results.

Much fun indeed!

[CookinFlat6]

^ wot second said innit

[overboost]

Tyre test. Kinda clutching at straws now, aren't we.

The overriding fact is, the other non-Mercedes powered teams got shown up badly. And I'm sure that doesn't sit well with their sponsors either. In F1, there is either dominance and/or aspirations of dominance (most recently voiced, our Ron of McLaren fame). When Horner, the ring-leader in this whole messy business, was faced with questions about their diffuser/chassis advantage in recent past, his only memorable response was " ." It pains him to now look round the Mercedes garage and see . I might suggest to all, despite the rifle shots, in the end, there will be no white flag with Mercedes crawling from out the nether bushes. Like all other rumblings and consternation for various issues from the past, this too will fall with a resounding thud! All will need to come to terms with their failure, work on those failures with hopes of making it better. That's what Mercedes did (within the confines of agreed upon rules/regs) and we have seen the results.

Much fun indeed!

Yes McLaren who have stated that the engine freeze is holding them back from closing the gap to Merc.

EB McLaren: "They benefited from the fact that they did a very good job and they benefited from the fact that the regulations are locked with the engines being frozen," Boullier added. "Most of the gains they have had come from the engine and they will for a couple of years until everybody can match them in terms of development. "This is what they are benefiting from and if you could unfreeze the engine regs, you will see some catch up."

And that is all the teams want is to be able to work on their failures to make it better, to be able to compete. The existing rules are flawed as 'competition' has been turned into a limited once a year lottery. We fans know the outcome of the season before it even starts!

And yes Mercedes is safe next season hiding out and gunning down any chance of competition from their grassy knoll. But it may backfire on them in the seasons following.


edit Added EB's quote for clarity.

[What's Burning?]

Why watch the sport then, your incessant complaints are so boring.

Ferrari has shown to be inept and have had to restructure their entire organization to address it, Horner is comporting like a sissy and The best team and the best driver have won the championship. I wouldn't mind the sport staying right where it is for the next year or three.

If you were a better fan you'd be showing more concern for Ferrari's real issues... as if, even were they allowed to develop their engine throughout the year they'd be effective or successful at it. What's been their excuse for the last 7 years?

Please, let's stop the incessant whining it's gone way beyond the point of it being embarrassing. This thread has long outlive it's usefulness indeed.

[The Second Coming]

The existing rules are flawed as 'competition' has been turned into a limited once a year lottery.

Flawed in what way? No one team or manufacturer was given a rules advantage. Everyone had a clean sheet of paper. Furthermore, if you take a close look at the regs in their current state, they, the manufacturers of power units, are allow development in stages over a set period of years, including next year. Within that allowance, they can choose to focus on reliability, drivability, boost or all of the aforementioned. Everyone has a fighting chance. It's what they do with that opportunity that will seal their fate. If M. Schumacher woke from his coma and the first thing he did was start reading threads on the web where these manufacturers were crying unfair, the first question he would ask is...

Michael: "Have I been unconscious for 4 or 5 years? My old team Mercedes have been dominating for a while? Nice!"
Corinna: "No love, just one season. Now, how about some ice-cream?"

My point? That's how absolutely ridiculous Horner and people of his ilk have made this issue. The word domination is not used in present tense. You have to be 4, 5, 6 years down the road looking back. What if the Mercedes AMG chassis is rubbish next season? Having a mega engine does them no good with bad aero and mechanical grip. They will just be Force India. (Emm...Lewis will still win the WDC but...where was I?)

[CookinFlat6]

Yes McLaren who have stated that the engine freeze is holding them back from closing the gap to Merc.
.

And finally OB demonstrates how little he sees when he looks, and how little he thinks before regurgitating - theres the proof.

Let this quote - (which I have also quoted before Ob does his usual party trick of removing non-sense 'items' in his irrational responses) remain here for posterity, when they marvel at how propaganda dominated F1

According to the chief whip for the DAF, McLaren who had the same Merc engine that the engine freeze held them back from developing to close the gap to the other identical Merc engines are OBs example. So without the engine freeze Mclaren would have developed their Merc engine themselves after each race with Button as chief designer. And Honda who say they expect to win from Australia next year must be ecstatic to hear that their engine is already holding McLaren back from the level they achieved competing with the Merc and Williams teams WHEN THEY HAD THE SAME ENGINE

Pure class - right up there with 'MS developed the V6 turbos during V8 races

You truly are a star OB (even if not a golden one)

[sagi58]

Just out of curiousity, are there any Mercedes fans who could honestly say they would be OK with
this situation if the shoe were on the other foot? Somehow I doubt that very much.

The shoe was on the other foot. The years of McLaren dominance. Williams. Ferrari. Red Bull. And sprinkled in there, the one dominant year of the untouchable Brawn. At the end of the day, this whole conversation is about dominance...this time, the focus is engine performance. Williams was a chassis domination. So was Red Bull. McLaren and Ferrari were both "package" (engine/chassis/driver). Today, most refuse to admit this is also a package issue...engine/chassis/driver. Yes, the Mercedes engine is mega but if you look at the customer teams, they didn't have the same level of performance on every circuit the way Mercedes AMG did. Sure, Williams shun on certain tracks that suited their sleek aero-friendly chassis but then they faltered on the tight and twisty bits.

So Sagi, yes I was OK with the dominance of other teams during their time, even at the peril of my own fav team and driver. Historically, that's what F1 has always been. It's Mercedes' turn. (And to think, there is a weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over one season. Really people? Really...one season?) If Mercedes run away with this thing for the next six years, come and talk with me then. I might, just might change my tune. Until then...such fun!

You may be the exception that proves the rule, so thanks for that!!

[sagi58]

...All will need to come to terms with their failure, work on those failures with hopes of making it better. That's what Mercedes did (within the confines of agreed upon rules/regs) and we have seen the results.

Much fun indeed!

But, that's just it, isn't it? The other teams have their hands tied and can't play on the same field.
How is that competition at its best? How can next season be viewed as having any value?

As far as I'm concerned, BOTH 2014 AND 2015 will be seasons where the best man/team won; BUT..........

[sagi58]

...If you were a better fan you'd be showing more concern for Ferrari's real issues... as if, even were they allowed to develop their engine throughout the year they'd be effective or successful at it...

With Mercedes refusing to relent, we'll never know, will we?
And, if YOU were a better fan, than you'd be showing more
concern for REAL competition AMONGST teams, rather than
between teammates. As it is, it would seem that Mercedes
fans are NO different to the Ferrari fans and Red Bull fans
who were happy with the domination of their teams.

[sagi58]

...If M. Schumacher woke from his coma and the first thing he did was start reading threads on the web where these manufacturers were crying unfair, the first question he would ask is...

Michael: "Have I been unconscious for 4 or 5 years? My old team Mercedes have been dominating for a while? Nice!"
Corinna: "No love, just one season. Now, how about some ice-cream?"...

That's in very poor taste, as far as "jokes" go!