FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[7UpJordan]

Manufacturers come and go, maybe in a few years time we might see Toyota walk away, or suddenly shock horror BMW pull out. Ford will return one day with Cosworth. There were lots of privateer entries trying to get the last available grid slot this year such as the return of Jordan and also Jean Alesi's proposed entry.

With budget caps coming into place and the new aero-regulations meaning cars could be cheaper to make - leaving more room open for flashes of genious to build the best car, not "how many winglets shall we put on?" - this will be of benefit to the teams with not a great deal in terms of resources, but those with the resources such as BMW and Williams - who have already got their supercomputers and 1 of their wind tunnels working on next year's car - could well come out the best.

[Forti_Corse]

i think toyotas presence has been foreseen as a disaster and the only real asian car manufacturer that deserves the grid in F1 is Honda as theyve been in the sport for many years and made it what it is

id definatly see red bull pulling out, theyre a massive company with billions of dollars. but they only work as a sponsor, if other teams cant reap their rewards for sponsorship then theyd much rather them gone sooner or later.

i see aguri suzukis entry rather irrelevant as he has no real reason to be in the sport, he never did much when he raced in F1. and he was never in the sport long enough to develop a taste for competing.

the most not needed team i say is torro rosso, the B team to red bull it doesnt do too much to promote anything really hasnt red bull been advertised enough in the sport over the past 15 or so years?

and lastly.... force india, i think asia has too much of the F1 spotlight let alone a cheesy entry by the indian comparison to flavio briatore. this team will never work out and will pack up its bags within a year or two. i think its proof now that eddie jordans grid spot is too much for rental costs

[Denthúl]

I disagree with practically everything you have said, Forti_Corse. Super Aguri are a team that people have grown to love the character of. They're small, but at times they've been impressive. They had some very good races last year considering the fact that their car was one of the worst on the grid. Remember Sato's move on Alonso in Canada? That was a place taken by skill alone.

Force India have already proved that they can make an impact on F1. Last year, Spyker were the worst team on the grid, scoring a single point in the whole season. Now the team is hovering on the borders of Q2 and they're only using a modified version of last year's Spyker. Fisichella in the Force India has done his fair share of fending of drivers in better cars who are rated higher than he is. They're easily one of the most improved teams on the grid and Mallya isn't just trying to get himself more involved in F1 - he wants to bring the sport to India, a nation where cricket is practically the only sport that is so widely enjoyed.

Toro Rosso, whilst a team who's presence annoys me, is a good thing for the sport in the sense that it's an extra team, without which less new drivers could get into the sport each year whilst the older ones decide to stick around. Once they're sold I'll be happy, but I don't want any team to leave at the moment. In fact, I want another one to be added. That way, we get more new drivers and we can start to see new talent emerging.

[McLaren Fan]

Sato is now resorting to bum licking and begging: From autosport.com:

Sato pleads for backing from Honda

By Jonathan Noble Monday, May 5th 2008, 08:54 GMT

Takuma SatoTakuma Sato has pleaded with Honda chiefs to give Super Aguri the chance to continue in Formula One ahead of crunch talks to decide the future of the team.

Super Aguri are fighting to stay alive, with the Honda board due to decide in the next 48 hours whether or not to accept an rescue proposal put forward by German automotive company the Weigl Group.

And with matters taking on a new urgency after autosport.com revealed that the team's trucks and motor home had been refused access to the Istanbul paddock on Sunday ahead of the next race in Turkey, Sato has asked Honda to give their full support.

"Obviously Honda has always been central to the whole Super Aguri team," Sato said in an interview on his official website.

"We have always worked so closely together and I understand that they are in a difficult position right now due to DIC (Dubai International Capital) letting everyone down at the last minute, but I hope they will be able to continue the fighting spirit and give the team some more time to get the new investment in place.

"We have showed over the past two years how efficient we can be as a very little team and given the chance and support I believe we can be very competitive."

He added: "We need Honda support more than ever now and I am just hoping that they will be able to find a satisfactory solution. Honda are famous for their 'Racing Spirit' and I am sure this will not desert them now."

Sato admits that the team's future is uncertain at the moment, but believes the offer from Weigl is both attractive and serious.

"I met them (Weigl) at the Spanish GP and they have the great passion to get the team over the current difficulties. They do not seem to be scared by the challenge and in that way I would say that they fit our philosophy well and it would be a great partner for the team.

"It is a great compliment to the team that so soon after Magma failed, another investor has come in with a survival plan for the team. It just shows the team has a great reputation."

And despite the current difficulties, Sato says that he is not even thinking of Super Aguri not surviving in F1.

"I really don't want to think too much about this as I need to keep my focus on racing," he said. "It is difficult enough to concentrate on the main job at the moment.

"But having said that, personally I am already looking forward to Suzuka 2009 when the Japanese GP goes back there. I know how important that event will be for Honda, the fans and of course myself.

"The thought of not being there is too impossible to think about. I just want a competitive package so I can challenge to the ultimate performance in front of the thousands of fantastic and loyal fans in Japan and around the world."

[Denthúl]

Sato is now resorting to bum licking and begging:

Your behaviour would be no different if your team and existence in Formula 1 was at stake like this, though.

I hope that Honda will accept the deal that's being offered. The fact that Nick Fry has told FOM not to permit SA to enter the track has already annoyed me somewhat and I would have little respect for the team if they put an end to Super Aguri.

[Red Racer]

I disagree with practically everything you have said, Forti_Corse. Super Aguri are a team that people have grown to love the character of. They're small, but at times they've been impressive. They had some very good races last year considering the fact that their car was one of the worst on the grid. Remember Sato's move on Alonso in Canada? That was a place taken by skill alone.

Force India have already proved that they can make an impact on F1. Last year, Spyker were the worst team on the grid, scoring a single point in the whole season. Now the team is hovering on the borders of Q2 and they're only using a modified version of last year's Spyker. Fisichella in the Force India has done his fair share of fending of drivers in better cars who are rated higher than he is. They're easily one of the most improved teams on the grid and Mallya isn't just trying to get himself more involved in F1 - he wants to bring the sport to India, a nation where cricket is practically the only sport that is so widely enjoyed.

Toro Rosso, whilst a team who's presence annoys me, is a good thing for the sport in the sense that it's an extra team, without which less new drivers could get into the sport each year whilst the older ones decide to stick around. Once they're sold I'll be happy, but I don't want any team to leave at the moment. In fact, I want another one to be added. That way, we get more new drivers and we can start to see new talent emerging.

I agree with all of the above, and add that Toyota is not a disaster they are turning to a competitive team and I think that Toyota is more of a Japan team, if you look behind the drivers heads there’s a jap flag, for me Honda is more of a world team because of there earth thing.

And it would be terrible to see red bull pull out. Haven’t you noticed there taking over the world, there everywhere in all forms of sport. Watch eurosport and every 2nd story there seems to be some1 with a red bull sponsorship.

[Forti_Corse]

yeah well super aguri is now out, its only a matter of time b4 the other backmarkers take form

[manmonkee]

With F1 so expensive there has to be some sort of customer car available, as much as I hate the idea, maybe Formula 1 should have an official Formula 1 car, designed by an outside company, If you want to be in F1 but don't want the expense of building a car, you buy the official F1 car, maybe half made by the manufacturer, half by the constructor. You can update it any way you want but your only eligable for drivers points and only get half the TV money. Weirdly with Aguri in it's first season taking an Arrows and updating it with new Aero is a little like this.

Come on, somebodies got to have a good idea

[Denthúl]

yeah well super aguri is now out, its only a matter of time b4 the other backmarkers take form

The other back-markers have the money that Super Aguri didn't. Toro Rosso are guaranteed not to be continuing in their current guise once the regulations change and Mallya is doing a good job already of pushing Force India towards the mid-field.

With F1 so expensive there has to be some sort of customer car available, as much as I hate the idea, maybe Formula 1 should have an official Formula 1 car, designed by an outside company, If you want to be in F1 but don't want the expense of building a car, you buy the official F1 car, maybe half made by the manufacturer, half by the constructor. You can update it any way you want but your only eligable for drivers points and only get half the TV money. Weirdly with Aguri in it's first season taking an Arrows and updating it with new Aero is a little like this.

Come on, somebodies got to have a good idea

There doesn't have to be a customer car available at all. Budget caps simply need to be effective enough to make it so that the poorest team on the grid can afford to compete in the sport without being thrust into financial difficulties like Super Aguri which, ultimately, was not their fault.

[manmonkee]

There doesn't have to be a customer car available at all. Budget caps simply need to be effective enough to make it so that the poorest team on the grid can afford to compete in the sport without being thrust into financial difficulties like Super Aguri which, ultimately, was not their fault.[/quote]

As long as there are accountants and Lawyers Budget capping will never work, History is full of these people proving black was white, or in this case Black was tax deductible. Dream on.

[woody2goody]

With F1 so expensive there has to be some sort of customer car available, as much as I hate the idea, maybe Formula 1 should have an official Formula 1 car, designed by an outside company, If you want to be in F1 but don't want the expense of building a car, you buy the official F1 car, maybe half made by the manufacturer, half by the constructor. You can update it any way you want but your only eligable for drivers points and only get half the TV money. Weirdly with Aguri in it's first season taking an Arrows and updating it with new Aero is a little like this.

Come on, somebodies got to have a good idea

That's a really good idea. Then we could at least have 24 cars, and if 3 teams buy the 'Formula One' car, they will be very competitive with each other , even if the car isn't quite on the midfield pace.

There could be a limit of 2 years with the official car to give teams time to make their own car.

I find it really sad that when the 12th entry was bid for last year or in 06, there were 10 or so entrants. Even though a couple of teams would be pissed off, and the Concorde agreement limits F1 to 24 cars, you could potentially have had a 40 car entry list. This is a great argument for customer cars. But because Bernie wants everything just right for him, not only did he and the FIA only allow the one entry, but they also banned customer cars.

F1 was at it's best with big entry lists and when lots of drivers could get GP experience. Even though some of the drivers were rubbish then, with today's higher standard of driving, some drivers could have a chance in F1 who would otherwise never get an opportunity. Also, with the new regs and cost-cutting, there could be an argument for junior teams using an old chassis, which could work, much like Super Aguri.

[darwin dali]

With F1 so expensive there has to be some sort of customer car available, as much as I hate the idea, maybe Formula 1 should have an official Formula 1 car, designed by an outside company, If you want to be in F1 but don't want the expense of building a car, you buy the official F1 car, maybe half made by the manufacturer, half by the constructor. You can update it any way you want but your only eligable for drivers points and only get half the TV money. Weirdly with Aguri in it's first season taking an Arrows and updating it with new Aero is a little like this.

Come on, somebodies got to have a good idea

That's a really good idea. Then we could at least have 24 cars, and if 3 teams buy the 'Formula One' car, they will be very competitive with each other , even if the car isn't quite on the midfield pace.

There could be a limit of 2 years with the official car to give teams time to make their own car.

I find it really sad that when the 12th entry was bid for last year or in 06, there were 10 or so entrants. Even though a couple of teams would be pissed off, and the Concorde agreement limits F1 to 24 cars, you could potentially have had a 40 car entry list. This is a great argument for customer cars. But because Bernie wants everything just right for him, not only did he and the FIA only allow the one entry, but they also banned customer cars.

F1 was at it's best with big entry lists and when lots of drivers could get GP experience. Even though some of the drivers were rubbish then, with today's higher standard of driving, some drivers could have a chance in F1 who would otherwise never get an opportunity. Also, with the new regs and cost-cutting, there could be an argument for junior teams using an old chassis, which could work, much like Super Aguri.

On the other hand one could argue that the junior teams and junior drivers should play in the junior leagues such as GP2 so that F1 could be kept as the elite pinnacle of motorsports w/o too many incompetent backmarkers (teams or drivers).