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[sagi58]

Competition should NOT be isolated within a team.
If you want to describe it as fair, that is.

[sagi58]

Mercedes won't allow it since it will only seal the fact that the other engine manufacturers are lame ducks...

Mercedes won't allow it. So, they "need" the buffer of not allowing other teams to catch up?
As far as I'm concerned, this is as close to cheating within the rules as you can get.

... Agreeing to a term and then changing it because they found out they suck at what they agreed on.

It was a stupid rule to implement without any real feedback from the new engines.
There should have been more testing allowed and time to implement any modifications
necessary, within the first two or three seasons, since these engines are new to F1.

Of course, you and any Hamilton/Mercedes fan will disagree.
I probably would do the same if the shoe were on the other foot.
But, think about all the negativity and declarations of cheating
we'd be hearing/reading about if that were the case!!

[Ferrari man 009]

As far as I'm concerned, this is as close to cheating within the rules as you can get.

To be fair, Mercedes aren't cheating. It can only be considered cheating when the rules are broken. Mercedes are well within their rights to object to the rules being changed, I have no problem with this. If Ferrari were in Mercedes' position I would be annoyed if they agreed to let all the other teams have a chance of catching up.

And to be fair, even if the rules are changed and the freeze is lifted, whats to say Mercedes wont find more time and keep the gap as it is anyway?

Personally, I think F1 need to focus their attention on making the sport sustainable for the smaller teams, rather than stupid gimmicks and rule changes that will increase rather than decrease costs.

[LRW]

Mercedes won't allow it since it will only seal the fact that the other engine manufacturers are lame ducks...

Mercedes won't allow it. So, they "need" the buffer of not allowing other teams to catch up?
As far as I'm concerned, this is as close to cheating within the rules as you can get.

Wtf are you on about Sagi?

Rules were agreed. Merc spanked everyone. Now everyone else wants to go back on the agreed rules except Mercedes.

To you this equates to Mercedes cheating?

You really have some f*cked up logic going on there Sagi. Even for you.

[CookinFlat6]

To be fair to sagi, it's not logic at all, she isn't into the regular factual or logical progressive exchange

She sees something said and she responds with whatever she can think off that sounds like a put down.

It's not about logic it's about providing a response that looks like a response

It's a creative fictionalisation, except she's the only one making things up - so it's a bit out of synch. If we were all creative fiction writers we would applaud sagi as the jk Rowland of F1,

50 shades of Sagi but thankfully without the naughty bits

[What's Burning?]

Competition should NOT be isolated within a team.
If you want to describe it as fair, that is.

That's right, competition should be only rules benefiting Ferrari winning and only Schumacher allowed to win, ever.

[Hammer278]

Competition should NOT be isolated within a team.
If you want to describe it as fair, that is.

That's right, competition should be only rules benefiting Ferrari winning and only Schumacher allowed to win, ever.

Yeah let's talk when Mercedes has specially tailored tyres for themselves (while everyone else has to put up with whatever), their own private test track (during limited testing), banning more powerful Renault/Ferrari innovations like Beryllium since they're too dumb to figure it out, banning third pedals even though they provide no advantage whatsoever, whining about a bent front wing after a bumpy Brazilian race getting competitors DSQ, and not to mention Hail Max Hitler himself pulling the puppet strings making sure Mercedes is cozily in power.

[What's Burning?]

Should we stop posting our views Sagi would not know what to be quite contrary about.

[sagi58]

Mercedes won't allow it since it will only seal the fact that the other engine manufacturers are lame ducks...

Mercedes won't allow it. So, they "need" the buffer of not allowing other teams to catch up?
As far as I'm concerned, this is as close to cheating within the rules as you can get.

Wtf are you on about Sagi?

Rules were agreed. Merc spanked everyone. Now everyone else wants to go back on the agreed rules except Mercedes.

To you this equates to Mercedes cheating?

You really have some f*cked up logic going on there Sagi. Even for you.

What am I on about? Easy...

The majority should rule. It's that simple. Sure, Mercedes has the right to insist that they keep to the rules as they were written; but, in light of the fact that everyone else wants more time to develop, in essentially using a veto, Mercedes is stopping the competition. Period.

As Ferrari man has already mentioned (as have many others), lifting the freeze doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will catch up, or that Mercedes will stand still; but, it does open up the competition. So, what is Mercedes "afraid" of?

Essentially, Mercedes is using the letter of the law to their benefit (as would any team) and, as a consequence, is ignoring the spirit of the law, which is to allow for competition (including from smaller teams with smaller budgets) within the rules.

[sagi58]

To be fair to sagi, it's not logic at all, she isn't into the regular factual or logical progressive exchange

She sees something said and she responds with whatever she can think off that sounds like a put down...

I can see why you might think that; but, please note, not everyone works like you do.

[racechick]

Mercedes won't allow it since it will only seal the fact that the other engine manufacturers are lame ducks...

Mercedes won't allow it. So, they "need" the buffer of not allowing other teams to catch up?
As far as I'm concerned, this is as close to cheating within the rules as you can get.

Wtf are you on about Sagi?

Rules were agreed. Merc spanked everyone. Now everyone else wants to go back on the agreed rules except Mercedes.

To you this equates to Mercedes cheating?

You really have some f*cked up logic going on there Sagi. Even for you.

What am I on about? Easy...

The majority should rule. It's that simple. Sure, Mercedes has the right to insist that they keep to the rules as they were written; but, in light of the fact that everyone else wants more time to develop, in essentially using a veto, Mercedes is stopping the competition. Period.

As Ferrari man has already mentioned (as have many others), lifting the freeze doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will catch up, or that Mercedes will stand still; but, it does open up the competition. So, what is Mercedes "afraid" of?

Essentially, Mercedes is using the letter of the law to their benefit (as would any team) and, as a consequence, is ignoring the spirit of the law, which is to allow for competition (including from smaller teams with smaller budgets) within the rules.

Mercedes don't have an exclusive veto. They're just excercising their right to keep things as were agreed. Now if you want to talk veto, ferrari do have one. I believe you've said that's ok though, because Ferrari are 'special' .
Ferrari are special needs alright! And are about to appoint a TP to make damn sure those special needs are met.

[LRW]

Mercedes won't allow it since it will only seal the fact that the other engine manufacturers are lame ducks...

Mercedes won't allow it. So, they "need" the buffer of not allowing other teams to catch up?
As far as I'm concerned, this is as close to cheating within the rules as you can get.

Wtf are you on about Sagi?

Rules were agreed. Merc spanked everyone. Now everyone else wants to go back on the agreed rules except Mercedes.

To you this equates to Mercedes cheating?

You really have some f*cked up logic going on there Sagi. Even for you.

What am I on about? Easy...

The majority should rule. It's that simple. Sure, Mercedes has the right to insist that they keep to the rules as they were written; but, in light of the fact that everyone else wants more time to develop, in essentially using a veto, Mercedes is stopping the competition. Period.

As Ferrari man has already mentioned (as have many others), lifting the freeze doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will catch up, or that Mercedes will stand still; but, it does open up the competition. So, what is Mercedes "afraid" of?

Essentially, Mercedes is using the letter of the law to their benefit (as would any team) and, as a consequence, is ignoring the spirit of the law, which is to allow for competition (including from smaller teams with smaller budgets) within the rules.

Sagi. That is the biggest load of BS you've ever spoken. Majority should rule? And you do realise there is plenty they can still change on their engine? Spirit of the rules? F*ck me. I've heard it all now.

[CookinFlat6]

Majority did rule - when they made and agreed to the rules

The key to understanding this for the famous five is that when the rules were discussed and agreed, every single engine maker knew that 1 of them could master the rules and have a monster engine.

But they were all too shy to think about how unfair it would be for the loser and so didnt suggest or argue for rules to help the losers catchup by allowing the losers to demand new rules halfway through the season.

One would have thought that Ferrari, with its noble history and experience should have thought more about helping out the losers when sitting down to discuss with the others including Merc who havent realy been in F1 that long and probably didnt want to upset the others by mentioning a get out of jail card for the losers

Good thing is that the supporters of the losers wont be able to apply that type of logic and so alls well in lalaland for another season of Monstering

[sagi58]

Mercedes don't have an exclusive veto. They're just excercising their right to keep things as were agreed. Now if you want to talk veto, ferrari do have one. I believe you've said that's ok though, because Ferrari are 'special' .
Ferrari are special needs alright! And are about to appoint a TP to make damn sure those special needs are met.

I did not say that it's OK, that Ferrari have a veto,
What I have said is that it's very limited. However,
I now can add that the veto doesn't include stopping
teams from developing their cars in-season in order
to keep the status quo.

That last statement is pure speculation and as such
doesn't merit a response. Oh, wait, I did respond!

[sagi58]

Mercedes won't allow it since it will only seal the fact that the other engine manufacturers are lame ducks...

Mercedes won't allow it. So, they "need" the buffer of not allowing other teams to catch up?
As far as I'm concerned, this is as close to cheating within the rules as you can get.

Wtf are you on about Sagi?

Rules were agreed. Merc spanked everyone. Now everyone else wants to go back on the agreed rules except Mercedes.

To you this equates to Mercedes cheating?

You really have some f*cked up logic going on there Sagi. Even for you.

What am I on about? Easy...

The majority should rule. It's that simple. Sure, Mercedes has the right to insist that they keep to the rules as they were written; but, in light of the fact that everyone else wants more time to develop, in essentially using a veto, Mercedes is stopping the competition. Period.

As Ferrari man has already mentioned (as have many others), lifting the freeze doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will catch up, or that Mercedes will stand still; but, it does open up the competition. So, what is Mercedes "afraid" of?

Essentially, Mercedes is using the letter of the law to their benefit (as would any team) and, as a consequence, is ignoring the spirit of the law, which is to allow for competition (including from smaller teams with smaller budgets) within the rules.

Sagi. That is the biggest load of BS you've ever spoken. Majority should rule? And you do realise there is plenty they can still change on their engine? Spirit of the rules? F*ck me. I've heard it all now.

Your opinion is duly noted... and respected as such!!