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[racechick]

You know what. I think we should just enjoy today for what we've seen Lewis achieve and cut each other a little slack. I've always found Ferrari man very fair in his comments, that doesn't mean I always agree with what he says, but he presents his views clearly and fairly , and much I do agree with. And whilst I don't think Nico is on Lewis' level, I felt today he did much to restore his reputation that took a bit if a bending during the ups and downs of the year. I really look forward to these two continuing the battle next year and hope Mercedes will let them fight again. I tnink Rosberg will have learnt a lot from this year, but so will Lewis, and with the second championship behind him I tnink he will be mighty.

[CookinFlat6]

Agree RC, thing is Ferrari were created at the start by Enzo to exploit the glamour side of Grand Prix and package and sell it to the public, a bit like pop idol etc. This was ferraris major success to create a myth out of a team that got spanked on track by Merc, auto union, and others and to make a profit from it. The whole thing was always a facade selling something or the other. The first 'pop star' racing team - and it worked, even today Ferrari attract fans who dont know much about F1 but like the image etc - thats success, thats the whole idea of branding etc

The Ferrari fans who know about the racing and facts etc are great, the ones who know about the passion and blind following of any driver or anything in red are generally what most F1 fans come across.

Ferrariman knows more than the majority, so why is he so sensitive , its not the first time a real racing team have done real racing, and provided real competition and a WDC/WCC clean sweep, so maybe today is not the best time to be reminding us that Ferrari are also a great noble team

[sagi58]

I've already congratulated Hamilton and his fans;
but, that was another thread, so...

Congrats once again!!

[sagi58]

...I already told you about the perceived classifications of those who wear Ferrari merchandise and invited you to gravitate to your group, but you keep speaking up for those who have never been to a race, mostly dont watch the races live on TV, have no problem with having no knowledge of F1 and are equally happy to admit that the love for ferrari and the partisanship, blind loyalty and blind worship for its drivers staff or racing results - supercedes the need to understand F1 or racing or cars or engines - then those that are the same but have the gumption to go on wiki before letting loose the passion, and at the other end of the scale those with enough interest in the cars and engines that they actually attend at least 1 race before commenting on what the engines sound like or how its changed etc

That perception is actually a personal bias on your part. One that you refuse to let go.
It completely undermines anything of worth that you have to say, where I'm concerned
because it's so blatantly obvious that you have no respect for anyone/anything Ferrari.
In fact, it's fairly safe to assume it goes beyond a lack of respect and on towards hatred.
You must realize that no one in F1 actually cares what you think or post here, right?

As for myself, what makes you think I don't watch races on TV? What I acknowledge is
not having as much knowledge, that doesn't mean I have no knowledge. Yes, I am quite
proud to admit that I support Ferrari the team; but, I don't see anyone being flagellated
for admitting they are Hamilton supporters, regardless of what team he drives for.

Not even sure why I bother, why anyone bothers to respond to you, as you have your mind
made up long before you even hit submit. It's actually pretty sad just how biased and just
how prejudiced you actually are.

[sagi58]

A very special CONGRATULATIONS to Roth and Overboost for making this the most joyful season ever for me as an F1 fan. Sagi you get only an honorable mention... since things couldnt look worse for the team that you've brought nothing but bad luck to since you began supporting them! I do feel for you.

First, you've forgotten that I watched Kimi win his title against... oh, yeah, Hamilton!!

Secondly, you keep talking about my being bad luck, I just might start supporting Hamilton!!

[sagi58]

...I do feel for Rosberg, Rosberg re-earned my respect today by finishing and also going up to the pre-podium room and congratulating his team mate.

That's what a true sportsman does!!
Bravo, Nico!!

[Hammer278]

A very special CONGRATULATIONS to Roth and Overboost for making this the most joyful season ever for me as an F1 fan. Sagi you get only an honorable mention... since things couldnt look worse for the team that you've brought nothing but bad luck to since you began supporting them! I do feel for you.

First, you've forgotten that I watched Kimi win his title against... oh, yeah, Hamilton!!

Secondly, you keep talking about my being bad luck, I just might start supporting Hamilton!!

A tactic which Geetface tried and since then Hamilton went on a rampage winning 5 in a row. Could use more 'insincere' help from a Ferrari fan so please try it out.

[sagi58]

Not my idea of fun, so I wouldn't waste my time, don't worry.
It was said tongue in cheek, since WB can't seem to make
up his mind if I have some sort of malocchio powers or I'm
just a bad luck talisman!!

[CookinFlat6]

Well it would hardly be a surprise to anyone if you claimed to be both AND contradicted yourself at the same time before changing sides and then changing focus completely

It is a veritable art form that you really need to develop further

[Ferrari man 009]

Out of courtesy, I will add something to this, even though we are off topic.

Anyone seriously comparing Merc and ferrari in terms of the commonly accepted definition of cheating is either trolling or worse.

like I said, the tribunal made it clear Merc did not cheat, it was a misunderstanding, end of story and we still have no concrete proof that they set out to cheat becuae they asked Charlie etc etc - past history

With ferrari, just the one example I gave you of issuing team orders when they were llegal is as clear as day that it was cheating - so the ex Ferrari TP Todt did not DQ them for cheating doesnt mean its not cheating, I am waiting for your proof that the FIA, as it did with Merc, categiorically defined the action and breach as NOT CHEATING - they didnt

So if you are seriously saying, because the ferrari biased FIA never DQed Ferrari for cheating its exactly the same as Mercs reprimand where the court costs were shared by the FIA and Merc etc then we are not discussing on the same adult level. just as the illegal bargeborads that ferrari got DQed for than won on a technical and dodgy appeal was also deemed as not cheating - wheres the proof? no prove Ferrari got the DQ overturned on a technicality, no one said they were NOT CHEATINg, just that they got away with cheating

And ferrari with the hidden extra payout and secret veto are comparable to Mercs tyre test?

Finally this wasnt about Ferrari, it was about red Bulls flexy cheating wings

No one really gives a sh!t about Ferrari cheating or not, it doesnt make a difference to their incompetence

Team Orders - If the FIA could have proved that it was a deliberate team order Ferrari would have lost the constructors points, but while they knew it was they had no way of proving it in a court.

Barge Boards - I don't know enough about it but Ferrari must have proved they were legal or provided no advantage for the FIA to overturn the decision, which has happened before.

My point was, I dont think any team deliberately cheats. I dont think Red Bull are cheats, they just push the limits of the rules exceptionally hard which is possibly why they have won the last 4 WCC's before this year. Let's make it clear that the part Red Bull got DQ'ed from qualifying for was a new part developed for the final race, so they probably just pushed the limits a little too far.

[sagi58]

Well it would hardly be a surprise to anyone if you claimed to be both AND contradicted yourself at the same time before changing sides and then changing focus completely

It is a veritable art form that you really need to develop further

If you said it, it must be true!
After all, you are omniscient!

[CookinFlat6]

Well my signature is no doubt a step in that direction, but please dont get carried away sagi, I am just an F1 fan who likes details

[sagi58]

... I am just an F1 fan who likes details

uh-huh...

[ang4f1]

Ferrariman, apart from unreliability and teammate 'point proving' Lewis did what he did to Button and Heikki - he trashed them on 'track racing performance' they didnt compete on track, he almost always beat all 3 when both drivers finished - Wiki can tell you this - points or stats wise, who cares except those looking at wiki decades from now. We know what we have witnessed. Nico was not close to Lewis in racing performance - not at all - he was clearly inferior on race day, no argument - and got a spanking, same spanking Button and Heikki

I was thinking of stats in years to come..ie in Wiki etc...
The double points that Lewis won yesterday, made the end of season points result, more as it should be IMHO.
The point making/slashing tyres at Spa causing DNF cost Lewis a 25 points & cheating in Monaco robbed Lewis of probable pole (he was up on NR time) another & 7 points etc.
The daily paper I have just read, shows a WDC points list...seems about right to me...
LH 384
NR 317
DR 238
VB 188
SV 167
FA 161
FM 134
JB 126
NH 96
SP 59

[CookinFlat6]

Ferrariman, apart from unreliability and teammate 'point proving' Lewis did what he did to Button and Heikki - he trashed them on 'track racing performance' they didnt compete on track, he almost always beat all 3 when both drivers finished - Wiki can tell you this - points or stats wise, who cares except those looking at wiki decades from now. We know what we have witnessed. Nico was not close to Lewis in racing performance - not at all - he was clearly inferior on race day, no argument - and got a spanking, same spanking Button and Heikki

I was thinking of stats in years to come..ie in Wiki etc...
The double points that Lewis won yesterday, made the end of season points result, more as it should be IMHO.
The point making/slashing tyres at Spa causing DNF cost Lewis a 25 points & cheating in Monaco robbed Lewis of probable pole (he was up on NR time) another & 7 points etc.
The daily paper I have just read, shows a WDC points list...seems about right to me...
LH 384
NR 317
DR 238
VB 188
SV 167
FA 161
FM 134
JB 126
NH 96
SP 59

Agree ang, that will make the season easier to understand in years to come, especially when held up against other WDCS, I had a quick play with the teammate comparison in dominant cars and lo and behold - despite the eventual points gap which looks fair in context of the whole season - the results are exactly in keeping with every WDC in the modern era

Shackled number 2 teammates - provide an easy ride for the champion, and makes it boring for the rest as there is no competition as shown by the numbers. But when there is competition between teammates the winner receives a lot more respect, so Sebs first title is the one he is respected for, the others are just a footnote are as most of Ms'

2014 Lewis teammate 82%

2013 vetel teammate 50% (shackled)
2012 Vettel teammate 63%(shackled)
2011 Vettel teammate 65%(shackled)

2012 Vettel teammate 94%(un shackled)

2002 Ms teammate 53% (shackled)
2001 Ms teammate 45% (shackled)
2001 Ms teammate 57% (shackled)

1989 Prost 78%
1988 Senna 96%

The fact that Webber was so close to Seb before being shackled is one of the biggest injustices in F1 next to Ferraris humiliation and subjugation of both Reubens and Massa