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[What's Burning?]

Well, here we are. The end of the 2014 season. Lots of racing, lots of changes and lots of unexpected events all culminating with either a new WDC or another driver rising to the double WDC echelon.

[Ferrari man 009]

Kobayashi is racing for Caterham, 2nd driver not confirmed yet but won't be Ericsson

[CookinFlat6]

Perhaps Ericsson was a bit too hasty to flounce off in a huff

[What's Burning?]

Softs and Super Softs for this weekend, and a long long long straight. Mercedes, Williams and then everyone else.

[1Lemon]

Softs and Super Softs for this weekend, and a long long long straight. Mercedes, Williams and then everyone else.

I don't think the Williams will be as high as everyone thinks this weekend, the track has some downforce required corners too, not many but still, they didn't do great in China where that had the longest straight in F1.

Although saying that, I did see an interview with Claire Williams where they said that Williams could effectively decide the title in this race, to which she replied "Oh I suppose so, never even thought about that".

[LiamCatterson]

Softs and Super Softs for this weekend, and a long long long straight. Mercedes, Williams and then everyone else.

I don't think the Williams will be as high as everyone thinks this weekend, the track has some downforce required corners too, not many but still, they didn't do great in China where that had the longest straight in F1.

Although saying that, I did see an interview with Claire Williams where they said that Williams could effectively decide the title in this race, to which she replied "Oh I suppose so, never even thought about that".

Yeah, just get Bottas to take Nico off the first corner and we'll love you forever

[Hammer278]

Williams could play a part in qualifying, but as usual should be a solid 2nd best in the race.

[What's Burning?]

The Mercs were fortysomeodd seconds in front of an inspired Massa last race. Who thinks it would even be close?

I think the Constructor's battle will be a dud, don't anticipate any movement there. The WDC race for fourth is going to be intense though. Vettel, Alonso, Bottas. That's going to be sweet.

[Roth]

The WDC race for fourth is going to be intense though. Vettel, Alonso, Bottas. That's going to be sweet.

You'd expect Bottas but after Brazil where he should have pulled a gap, it's left both Williams drivers surprisingly low in the standings. They're maybe still susceptible to poor strategy.

Alonso has been talking up his year, which makes the Ferrari look even worse than originally thought, but on recent form you'd put him least likely to finish fourth.

And Vettel despite it all could still end up in a respectable position. He's suffered a lot from Ricc's success but if you look at the season as a whole, they've been quite evenly matched, just Ricc has got a few more peaks on him and Vettel hasn't been able to take this car to that next level, like he has previously. I never thought I'd be saying this but Vettel has impressed me this year, moreso than his winning years, despite being a bit crap (comparitively) - it's his attitude out of the car as much as anything. So fourth would be a great result for him because it's not the general impression we're left with.

[What's Burning?]

Bottas has an abysmal Brazil but I think some of that clearly had to do with driving the first stint with a loose belt that then wasted more time in the pits tightening. Besides that he just didn't cope with the tire situation well, he's a racer and pushes and that was not going to do it under those conditions. I think Williams has more than enough car for him to easily take fourth.

I'm not sure how you could be impressed by Vettel. No matter how you slice it, he's been out driven by his teammate. First of all you have to consider the fact that when Ricciardo has won, assuming that the Red Bull was under favorable conditions. It's been

Can........Hun....Bel
Ric 1........1.......1
Vet 3........7.......5

Hardly what you could call evenly matched results there.

Now let's move onto other stats.
.................................Ric..........Vet
Qualified ahead................11.......... 7
Average qualifying gap......-0.046s.......-
Finished race ahead...........10...........3
Laps spent ahead..............428.........48
WDC Points.....................214........159

Very interesting of note here is the laps ahead. Proving that even though evenly matched, he's better at saving his car, tires, fuel, strategy or whatevere he's doing to make a very pronounced push to come out ahead of his teammate. You can say Vettel handled it well, but what's he going to do? He took tons of heat for complaining early in the season, we had the crying game over the radio where he was asking the team to move Alonso out of the way for him pretty please and he had the "tough luck" comment.

Something of even more interest is the qualifying results. Ricciardo leads there by quite a margin. Vettel was always credited with being a one lap master, and that is the one stat that's most shocking of all. I know the cars are difficult to handle and not nearly as planted as last year due to the loss of the blown rear. But even I'm surprised with his qualifying results as compared to Ricciardo, who had previously done relatively well in Qualifying against Vergne, but still... JEV was not a good qualifier.

In the end he's a 4 time WDC who lost his magic carpet ride, and he'll have that 4 time WDC status with him always, but this year showed each and every weakness predicted by Alonso, Hamilton and a lot of the people on this forum. I would have been more inclined to get behind Vettel should he stay and fight it out in his team, Red Bull but his hasty exodus from the team speaks volumes, further underscoring the black and white results above. Let's wait and see what palmares he can add to his dossier at the scuderia.

[CookinFlat6]

I never thought I'd be saying this but Vettel has impressed me this year, moreso than his winning years, despite being a bit crap (comparitively) - it's his attitude out of the car as much as anything. So fourth would be a great result for him because it's not the general impression we're left with.

But you told us many months ago that Sebs mental strength had impressed you and was the reason Seb, although getting a right royal pasting from his near rookie teammate, was holding his own as far as you were concerned

[Hammer278]

The WDC race for fourth is going to be intense though. Vettel, Alonso, Bottas. That's going to be sweet.

You'd expect Bottas but after Brazil where he should have pulled a gap, it's left both Williams drivers surprisingly low in the standings. They're maybe still susceptible to poor strategy.

Alonso has been talking up his year, which makes the Ferrari look even worse than originally thought, but on recent form you'd put him least likely to finish fourth.

And Vettel despite it all could still end up in a respectable position. He's suffered a lot from Ricc's success but if you look at the season as a whole, they've been quite evenly matched,

LOL stopped reading at this point.

[Roth]

I'm not sure how you could be impressed by Vettel. No matter how you slice it, he's been out driven by his teammate. First of all you have to consider the fact that when Ricciardo has won, assuming that the Red Bull was under favorable conditions. It's been

Can........Hun....Bel
Ric 1........1.......1
Vet 3........7.......5

Hardly what you could call evenly matched results there.

These are the peaks I mentioned.

Now let's move onto other stats.
.................................Ric..........Vet
Qualified ahead................11.......... 7
Average qualifying gap......-0.046s.......-
Finished race ahead...........10...........3
Laps spent ahead..............428.........48
WDC Points.....................214........159

Very interesting of note here is the laps ahead. Proving that even though evenly matched, he's better at saving his car, tires, fuel, strategy or whatevere he's doing to make a very pronounced push to come out ahead of his teammate. You can say Vettel handled it well, but what's he going to do? He took tons of heat for complaining early in the season, we had the crying game over the radio where he was asking the team to move Alonso out of the way for him pretty please and he had the "tough luck" comment.

Something of even more interest is the qualifying results. Ricciardo leads there by quite a margin. Vettel was always credited with being a one lap master, and that is the one stat that's most shocking of all. I know the cars are difficult to handle and not nearly as planted as last year due to the loss of the blown rear. But even I'm surprised with his qualifying results as compared to Ricciardo, who had previously done relatively well in Qualifying against Vergne, but still... JEV was not a good qualifier.

In the end he's a 4 time WDC who lost his magic carpet ride, and he'll have that 4 time WDC status with him always, but this year showed each and every weakness predicted by Alonso, Hamilton and a lot of the people on this forum. I would have been more inclined to get behind Vettel should he stay and fight it out in his team, Red Bull but his hasty exodus from the team speaks volumes, further underscoring the black and white results above. Let's wait and see what palmares he can add to his dossier at the scuderia.

Expectation has a lot to do with it. Is Vettel failing because he's not repeating past glories, or is Ricc surpassing himself? Or are they doing both? Or neither? It's counterituitive to suppose Vettel is poor and Ricc is great, why can't one be good and the other better? If Vettel is poor, Ricc might only be average to beat him, so to reduce it to he's lost his rocket is a disservice to both drivers. And if Vettel was so great in his rocket, and without it he's lost, it would suppose these regs don't suit him, so these regs might just suit Ricc better than the previous ones, and why it's no use comparing and making definitive statements about drivers in completely different cars. All we know is Ricc took to this year like a duck to water, and Vettel has struggled and had to adapt his technique. And he has adapted slowly and the results show that.

The first half of the season Ricc came out on top more often than not but, peaks apart, not by more than one or two places. Only in Hungary did Ricc leave him for dead. The second half has seen a gradual shift, so now they are evenly matched (not exactly, statistically matched, but we shouldn't automatically go into the w/e expecting Ricc to better Vettel). Since the break it's equal in quali where equality allows. Ricc has finished ahead in races more often, but only 4-3, and like earlier in the season, there's not a lot in it, usually a single place.

So it's the expecation of Vettel trouncing his teammate that's not being fulfilled, not necessarily that Vettel is being owned by Ricc. But it feels like he is, which is the confusing part - we feel like it's a shellacking but it's nowhere near the scale of the Ferrari or McLaren drivers. So his main issues are the tyres, and getting the best out of them by adapting his technique, which as we have seen in previous seasons, cars and drivers are very sensitive to, and can swing championships. It worked in his favour last year, not this year. And if you're struggling with tyres it has a knock on effect to all those other things you mentioned, like fuel and strategy - even overtaking which has been one of Ricc's real strengths this year, that ruthless decisive streak which have been the difference between winning and not winning. And whilst Vettel isn't in that league, this year he's markedly improved, probably because he's had the practice.

And we've been over how he's handling it before, so I'm not going into that again, just to say he could have easily been a sausage and hasn't been.

[Roth]

I never thought I'd be saying this but Vettel has impressed me this year, moreso than his winning years, despite being a bit crap (comparitively) - it's his attitude out of the car as much as anything. So fourth would be a great result for him because it's not the general impression we're left with.

But you told us many months ago that Sebs mental strength had impressed you and was the reason Seb, although getting a right royal pasting from his near rookie teammate, was holding his own as far as you were concerned

You remember what I said months ago about Vettel? I'm impressed. Is this the same way you remember what I said about Hamilton being a mentalist but can never seem to get quite right either?

[CookinFlat6]

I am not sure what a mentalist is, sounds like a fundamentalist but I'm sure it means something to you. No I had to search recently for your post where you said Lewis had a mental weakness as evidenced by getting out quailified by the narrowest margins by his teammate, and then you said Seb was mentally strong because, despite getting b!tched slapped, and battered by his teammate he was putting up a good fight and was therefore evenly matched.

Maybe thats what you mean by mentalist