FORUMula1.com

[CookinFlat6]

That doesnt make any sense at all, and you forgot the random whip smiley

[sagi58]

Not to worry.

[racechick]

I'm posting this here. Perhaps it would have been better in the Ecclestone thread. It charts the disaster that is Ecclestone from the dirty deal he did with Mosely when he acquired the commercial rights of F1 for 100 years, to his present ridiculous comments on engines. It's written by one if my favourite F1 writers , Nigel Roebuck who used to write for Autosport.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/le ... at-cake/5/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is a great read and really informative. I urge you to read it, it's an easy read and has pictures

Some snippets.......

It has long seemed to me that virtually all the ills of the contemporary sport may be traced back to this unholiest of deals. Soon after its announcement I had what was to be my last conversation with Ken Tyrrell, then in the final throes of cancer, but still feisty: “You wait,” Ken said. “Bernie’ll flog the commercial rights on to a bunch of bloody asset-strippers…”

And lo, in 2006 it was announced that Formula 1 was under new ownership, CVC Capital Partners having acquired it for around $2 billion, while employing Ecclestone to continue to do the deals.



In my estimation, the new rules have improved F1 immeasurably, the spectacle – and the quality of the racing – better by far in 2014 than for very many years. The new engines produce a lot more power than their predecessors, while using considerably less fuel, and that is something about which the sport should be shouting from the heavens. As it is, all we have heard from Ecclestone and his acolytes is endless complaints that they don’t make enough noise, and now there is even, from some in Bernie’s camp, the risible suggestion that we junk the hybrids and dust off the V8s! Ye gods…

[What's Burning?]

... the started hitting the fan around page 36 or 37 when it was clear how wrong Ferrari had gotten things and their altruistic desire to make F1 better came to the forefront, manifesting itself as an immediate need to lift the in season engine freeze for power gains agreement...

Would that be similar to how Mercedes insists they won't agree with a lifting of the freeze
until July, 2015 because they are so altruistically concerned about the good of F1?

I guess we'll just have to keep re-reading posts here because any comment defending them...

... stays on the forum and regardless of how much its denied or pretended to not ever happening it's there for all to see.

Yes except in this case Mercedes isn't asking for the rules (they all unanimously agreed upon) to be changed. Why would Ferrari agree to something they now disagree with? Wouldn't it be better to roll up their sleeves and put a top notch engine on the grid. It's Ferrari after all, they make engines! Because you don't like your team being used as a dishrag by team like Williams and Red Bull, doesn't mean we should change the engine regulations.

I guess Ferrari have a right to change their mind, I mean they let go of Kimi then they hire him back, then they agree to engine regulations because even Ferrari can change their mind right?

According to Ferrari's CEO Amedeo Felisa, who is present at the Beijing Auto Show these days, the path that Formula One should follow for the future in terms of engine development is the Gasoline Direct Injection concept, as it cuts fuel consumption very efficiently.

“If F1 has to develop something helpful for real driving conditions, then the best solution is for an engine that is turbocharged and GDI. That is what we would support. It is the best solution for driving efficiency and utilization of the engine in a positive way,” Felisa was quoted as saying by British publication Autocar.

I know you don't like to read wordy posts, but according to Amedeo Felisa the small displacement Turbos were the future. But what does he know, since apparently only your opinion matters. Not facts, not industry insiders, nothing. Just that Ferrari is looking like the embarrassment to the "legacy" so the sport must be changed to allow them to compete.

I'm going to enjoy each and every year going forward that Ferrari are struggling with their engine development simply because of the whiners demanding the sport make alterations to the off the rack suit Ferrari bought.

[CookinFlat6]

Whats good for F1 is for those engine makers that are clearly hopeless at making engines, to stop making heavy, thirsty, low powered AND expensive engines that no customers want, and buy engines from Merc or Honda instead

RBR contemplated this very question for a while before deciding to give Renault a chance to catch up

If RBR are now found to have made a bad decision, well shucks, they should start making right decisions

As long as Mercedes is prepared to sell exactly the same engine it uses to customers, there is no need to feel sorry for the customers or loser engine makers who will surely go the same way as Cosworth

Honda are clever enough to turn up for the second year with an engine that works, why would we worry about those engine makers, who despite a whole years head start make another lump of sh!t? Renault dont even want to be in F1, if RBR want their engine then i8t should lump it or get new ones

No one complained when 1 team had Adrian Newey, by saying 'RBR are stifling competition by not allowing the other teams to employ Adrian on a job share basis'

I cannot wait for that heaven ordained moment when MnM is going to turn around and say (like Alonso) we want to buy Merc engines.

Now the excuses and vetos etc Merc will have to come up with to avoid selling Ferrari engines - that would be a real injustice for the Tifosi to fume about. They should save their energy

[sagi58]

Thanks for that link, RC! Very interesting read!!

While I was reading it, out of the corner of my eye, I noticed the following:

Talk about a revolution

The future of Formula 1 has never been more uncertain. Here, Motor Sport presents its vision of how Grand Prix racing can be reborn. It’s radical – but echoes of the past are clear

Greed has damaged Formula 1, turned it from a vibrant, vivid, alive, unsettled and exciting environment, where anything might happen, into a predictable, codified template of commercial success, where everything is uniform and conforming to the consensus...

... Simply trying to recreate our favourite eras – whether that be the 1960s, ’70s or ’80s – would be contrived, retrograde and against everything that made those eras so appealing. But capturing that spirit within a thriving, constantly evolving modern entity is what we should be looking to do – and this is an outline of how that might be achieved in the future...

Commercial...

Technical/Sporting...

Human...

[CookinFlat6]

[racechick]

I have a question.
Both Renault and Ferrari have made it clear they want the rules changing regarding engine development for 2015. They need unanimous agreement for this to happen and they haven't got it, because Merc, for obvious reasons ( they got the job done with in the rules and they want to protect rising costs) won't agree. Horner had oft stated in his hypocritical and sour puss voice, that he will ensure the rules change for 2016.......to protect small teams and for the sake of F1 For 2016 unanimous agreement isn't required, only a majority, so thi is my question, well questions.

1. Is it just the engine manufacturers that get to vote? Or is it the teams that vote?
2. If it's just the engine manufacturers, and Honda have turned up with a Merc like engine, are Honda likely to vote with Merc?
If they do then horner and M&M man don't have their majority.
If all the teams get a vote, and presuming Honda again align with Merc, that would be, Merc, Williams, Lotus, FI and Mclaren v Ferrari, red bull, Torro Rosso, Sauber, Catteram. Again no majority.
So if that happened the engine rules wouldn't change would they? Is there anything else involved in this that I've missed?

[CookinFlat6]

It's the big 5 plus the fom who get votes, Merc Williams vs RBR Ferrari with McLaren and fom deciding which side. McLaren will go with the Merc side cos they can't really afford it unless Honda want to spend the kind of money they wasted before, and once Ferrari goes public they will be trying to bring in a spending cap

It's was all crap pr for the consumption of the level of FI fans who think Ferrari can go to lmp and dominate with ices running of algae

RBR can't compete with Merc or Honda and will soon be buying engines from one of them

[What's Burning?]

Mind you that it's the two teams with the HUGEST budgets in the sport, nearly a billion dollars a year for 2013 between the two of them, and they're concerned about costs. Hypocritically since the Merc engine costs 40% of the cost of a Renault engine.

I'm enjoying the reaming the Hornster is getting.

[stonemonkey]

I didnt realise it was as little as 40℅

Horner now wants twin turbos and standard ERS

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/30152777" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[racechick]

I heard him say that in an interview during practice. He talks rubbish. v8's one day, twin turbos for more noise another day. No ones bothered about the noise, that was a red herring by Bernie and the racings great. And the most sickening is the pretence by Horner that he's bothered about other teams, does he think everyone's turned stupid all of a sudden?

[CookinFlat6]

Horner needs to be concerned about other things. Adrian Newey gone, his right hand man over at McLaren singing like a canary, the decision to stick with Renault resulting in another season playing catchup, and on top of it he has now royally peed off Merc, AND Honda by telling the media Honda would sheepishly follow his lead and ditch their hybrid before its even in play to go back to their V8s. The same ones that got chucked out and replaced by Mercs V8 by Brawn to go on and win the WCC and WCC with a team he paid Honda just £1 for after Honda had spent half billion developing the double diffuser concept and hiring wind tunnels and paying off all the staff.

Yup Im sure Honda are gonna be sticking Horny spice on the top of their customer list for 2016

[What's Burning?]

I didnt realise it was as little as 40℅

Horner now wants twin turbos and standard ERS

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/30152777" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just to be clear, I meant that it cost 40% less than the cost of a Renault engine.

[CookinFlat6]

Horner said at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix that he now accepted the rules would not change for 2015 but that something needed to be done for 2016.

Aw shucks, common guys, please fight a little more, give Toto a chance to make jokes. Something needs to be done?? What about your earlier ultimatum??, you and Honda are majority voting for the V8s back or for unlimited spending, remember???????

"It's unsustainable for any of the manufacturers to keep spending at the level we are.

Whos we?? Merc are making a profit from their engines, their customers are happy and in business. We?? do RBR own Renault who provide the most expensive engine on the grid that did less miles in testing than the safety car? Are you saying Honda and Merc have more dosh??

So we should maybe look at simplifying the engine because if the development costs stay as they are then we won't attract new manufacturers in.

Simplyfy to something Renault can produce cheaply?? you jackass you, think no one would notice that the Renault who are only interested in making a profit from F1 did not reall wnat to unfreeze the regs afterall, and actually want less involvement. We need new manufacturers, are you unhappy with Renault?? try Merc, they have an engine

We have to ensure the sport is attractive to new manufacturers."

No sh!t sherlock, thats why everyone believed the threat of voting in unlimited spending for 2016 would attract the new manufacturers

He is exactly like a couple of <EDITED WB> who post on here

unspecified name calling is not anything we should be delving into now, is it?