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[racechick]

Looking out for yourself is fine. Undermining and isolating your team mate isn't necessary. But it's done now and Leiws is the better for it. It did him a favour as Myown pointed out because he washed his hands of it all and ended up in the best team

[myownalias]

Looking out for yourself is fine. Undermining and isolating your team mate isn't necessary.

Which was only possible because of McLaren's centralized policy rather than the more traditional two teams, one team per driver, operating as separate entities.

[racechick]

Looking out for yourself is fine. Undermining and isolating your team mate isn't necessary.

Which was only possible because of McLaren's centralized policy rather than the more traditional two teams, one team per driver, operating as separate entities.

Yes. That was definitely partly responsible.

[sagi58]

The first one. He says it's important to feel part of the family, yet he went out of his way to alienate Lewis from the family. So that's a bit hypocritical.

Did he really? In my view, Jenson looked out for his own interests, just like many other drivers before him at McLaren and other teams, it's happened for years, just that with social media and the Internet in today's technological age, we hear more about the internal dealings of teams and drivers...

And that, in a nutshell is the problem with social media, isn't it?
We hear/read bits and pieces from this person, then that one and
we fill in the rest with assumptions, suppositions and theories.

Why do teams bother with "official" statements, we already ""know"" everything that's going on!

[What's Burning?]

And that, in a nutshell is the problem with social media, isn't it?
We hear/read bits and pieces from this person, then that one and
we fill in the rest with assumptions, suppositions and theories.

We?

[CookinFlat6]

And that, in a nutshell is the problem with social media, isn't it?
We hear/read bits and pieces from this person, then that one and
we fill in the rest with assumptions, suppositions and theories.

We?

I think thats the royal We

I offered my own opinion based on what I have seen of her in the public domain. I have come to my opinion about them as a couple based
on Hamilton's own comments regarding his own performance on track reflecting his personal life and the comments made by his own fans.

[sagi58]

And that, in a nutshell is the problem with social media, isn't it?
We hear/read bits and pieces from this person, then that one and
we fill in the rest with assumptions, suppositions and theories.

We?

Yes, we. As in "we" as a society!

[zurich_allan]

I don't know about Jenson being lucky to keep a seat during his early F1 career. Personally I find it very interesting to look at if a similar situation were to come about with a young driver today.

In 2000, Jenson at Williams scored 12 points. Under the points system today he would have scored 67.

In 2002 at Renault he scored 14 points, had it been today his season total would have been 80 points.

Over those seasons when Ferrari were during their period of absolute dominance, and McLaren were still winning multiple races, Jenson scored a whole load of 4th - 7th places, which was pretty good, but those places resulted in very low points, so weren't rewarded in the way they are now.

Just a different perspective.

[CookinFlat6]

Zurich, in 2000 Williams were third in the WCC as they are this year

this year if he had scored 67 points vs 156 and 98 for Bottas and a massa who has vastly underperformed. Put it another way, the rookie Magnussen has scored 55 in a McLaren that is no where near the Williams and many think he has not done enough to keep his seat.

I am not sure why you think had Jenson repeated his performance in 2000 in todays context he wouldnt be similarly demoted from the 3rd best team or farmed out on loan

It cant be a coincidence that 2 TPs both made the decision at the time that he didnt produce enough, in todays F1 there would be no second or third chances

And interestingly you have left 2001 out of your statistical analysis, could it be because he came second last of the points scorers with 2 points - or dont you think this season counts?

Do you think if Magnus went on next season to score a quarter of his teammates points he would get a third chance?

[zurich_allan]

But Williams this year aren't the third best team on the grid. They're the second best. They have a fundamentally better all round package than Red Bull and it was through a number of factors that in the early part of this season Williams didn't reach the potential they pretty much indisputably should have.

And no - it wasn't a statistical analysis, it was a quick summary. If I wanted to do a proper statistical analysis it would be a bit more professional than a lot of the pseudo stuff you often see posted. If you look back historically at my posts I am always careful not to criticise ANY driver in their first year at a new team, as I think a large number of people don't appreciate the complexities associated with changing cars, engineering set-up etc. This would be especially true of most young drivers with little other pre-F1 professional experience.

I wouldn't be saying this just about Jenson BTW, it's an argument I've made on this forum before relating to Bruno Senna, Grosjean, Kimi, Schumi and others. Going back historically I've said the same thing relating to Frenzen, Zanardi, Bourdais and others.

[CookinFlat6]

Fair enough, however the point remains that the last couple of season, and this one in particular, would need performance from a non money bringing rookie driver in a top 4 team, of magnitudes of years past. So all those drivers including Jenson are lucky they didnt turn up recently in F1

Do you agree?

[zurich_allan]

Absolutely.

[CookinFlat6]

[LiamCatterson]

You know what I just realised? This isn't the first time Button has been booted out in favour for Alonso lol

[CookinFlat6]

Its also likely that were Jenson to get a drive in a top WEC team, Alonso would displace him for the third time when he decides to retire from F1

It makes sense as Alonso is the ultimate version of the cruise and collect 'off track overtaking', TP disturbing 'not quite the fastest' Prost inspired merchant.

In fact he is like a Button with permanently accessible talent and relentless drive