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[LiamCatterson]

Take this with a grain of salt but I hope this is true to be honest. Music to my ears

Wouldn't that be something?!
Two birds with one stone: no freeze anymore and no mo stupid sounding engines.

I think Ferrari will be praying for the old engines which were fixed

Surely they don't want to unfreeze Mercs V8 and Kers

It's the ERS side they are hurting on now, don't think they need Merc bolting the ERS onto the V8

Yeah, Ferrari will want this badly. But so will Christian, hell, he needs something now his favourite buttkisser is leaving to Ferrari

[What's Burning?]

Sure Honda would love that after the development money and effort they've put into it so far.

As long as they keep the fuel flow rate and 100 liter capacity tank and the engine count to 5 per year going to 4 per year in 2016 as they were supposed to, I'm sure Mercedes would have no problems with that.

[What's Burning?]

And who pays for the lost revenues from fewer fans and sponsors driven away by a sport without competition and dominated by one team? Even the fans in Germany aren't willing to pay to see it!

In contrast, the stands at Interlagos were quite full

[CookinFlat6]

This is all the usual PR campaign from Red Bull and their sidekick Ferrari. They would need Honda to vote with them to force a change and I somehow doubt Honda will arrive and vote for scrapping the engine they built to help their new ailing competitors to get up off the floor

Even if Honda were also behind Merc they would not want to go back to V8s with the memory of brawn swapping thier Honda v8 for the Merc one as part of the humiliation they faced last time in F1

This is just pr to excite the 'new F1 fans'. Ferrari can't afford an engine war after they float, Renault don't even want to be in F1, so RBR would need to start making their own engines to spend what they want

Complete and utter tosh

[overboost]

:rofl:

OMG! You are serious

Ok let's all be serious - so you think therefore we should have no restrictions on any development at all because most f1 reg eras tend to be won in dominant fashion by one team, so we should unlock all development to allow any team behind to catch up always

Should we have unlimited testing also?

F1 is serious business.

To answer your questions:

Development and innovation is good.

More testing is good.

Driver development is good.

A base fund transfer to all teams is good.

Vetoing competition is bad!

[CookinFlat6]

You didn't answer the questions

To stop one team dominating should we have unlimited development and testing to always give the losers a chance to catch up at any time

Simple yes or no, then you can apply your 'poetic license' afterwards

[CookinFlat6]

This is getting so funny - this pathetic game of PR that RBR think they are so good at. I particularly love the headline and soundbites then the contradictions and retractments in the same article

Even the BBc are reporting this like it means anything
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29993990

Red Bull F1 boss Christian Horner has threatened to join with rival teams to tear up restrictions on engine development from 2016.

Threatened to join?? Join who? Its RBR and Ferrari

Renault, Ferrari and Honda want an extra step of development during the season to try to catch Mercedes.

Horner said: "I think that's the only option because with a majority vote '16, '17, '18 can be open, which is ridiculous because it just means we're all going to end up spending a lot more money over a longer period of time, whereas it should be opened to allow Renault, Ferrari, Honda to close the gap."

HONDA!!!!! they havent even tested their car and they need to catch up already Christian????

World champions Mercedes argue the current rules allow plenty of scope for development, saying 92% of the engine design can be changed for next season.

Merc say if the other 2 couldnt make a good engine with 4 years notice and cant improve within the rules, what will spending anymore change???

Horner has blamed the adoption of new turbo hybrid engines this season for the problems of the small teams, because engine bills have at least doubled.
He said F1 ought to consider a return to the previous outdated V8 normally aspirated engines.

Ah Christian pulls the ferrari card, the engines we all agreed to 4 years ago are too expensive - thats the problem, never mind Mercs are the cheapest and best and their customers are happy. His solution is to scrap all the money spent and scrap the regulations and rules and return to the V8s. Make the small teams spend more money to change back. Ofcourse Merc, Honda and Renault are only there because of the new engines, if they leave who is gonna make your V8s Christian???

When it was put to him that the road-car manufacturers would quit F1 if the sport returned to the old engines, Horner said: "They might pull out anyway [because of the increasing costs]. It's just a crazy situation; completely nuts."

but but but Christian, unfreezing the engines would guarantee increasing costs, the only way to avoid increasing costs is to stick to the rules and schedules agreed by all after a lot of planning and calculation

It's just a crazy situation; completely nuts."

Ah, ok, thats good to know Christian, keep it up mate

No wonder the 'more recent' fans dont know their arses from their elbows over this one

[What's Burning?]

It's no wonder Bernie is touting him as the new F1 Supremo when Bernie is cryogenically stored.

[stonemonkey]

Reading that cookie, and taking what's said in this video, makes me think there could be something/someone else behind all this.

[youtube]BgrbdKQ3zzs[/youtube]

Bernie behind the teams to force the switch back to V8?

[overboost]

You didn't answer the questions

To stop one team dominating should we have unlimited development and testing to always give the losers a chance to catch up at any time

Simple yes or no, then you can apply your 'poetic license' afterwards

Of course the teams should be allowed to use their designers and engineers to continuously develop and refine their engines in order to be more competitive, it is their job l and it is about what F1 is all about - pushing the envelope. Having them sit on the sidelines all season and not be allowed to do their job because Mercedes is afraid of a little competition is ruining the racing.

I don't know exactly what you mean by unlimited as there are limits to everything and at some point no matter how much time you invest the results diminish. If a team wants to spend their whole budget on their engines I guess it is up to them but I think that they are all smart enough to know how to run their teams and manage resources.

I do think that Merc is a valuable player in F1 and should be encouraged to stay however it does appear that they have lost their way when they threaten to veto competition. As well the implementation of the engine regs was a failure, a lottery basically.

ps. I am not going to write you any poems so don't ask!

[CookinFlat6]

Reading that cookie, and taking what's said in this video, makes me think there could be something/someone else behind all this.

[youtube]BgrbdKQ3zzs[/youtube]

Bernie behind the teams to force the switch back to V8?

Bernie is always up to mischief. If we look at the hard facts and hard realities, the CVC equity in TOPCO is really only the agreement of the top 4 teams to remain in F1 for the next decade to protect the tv rights income or whatever he has agreed in each bilateral agreement outside the Concorde type agreement. We have seen the numbers suggesting all those 4 teams are now been paid out of the Topco share. We know Ferrari will no longer be in the old bargaining position they were in as they will become like Williams. We know Merc, Renault and Honda will not stay with V8s.

So taking all that it seems Bernie is priming everyone, fans, media etc for the change to a fully spec series - customer cars supplied by the big 4 and open to any team who can turn up and buy the bits. Ferrari for example might not need to actually race as Ferrari anymore instead just supply bits to their customers - the corsa clieti is now operated by the F1 side, so their customer business is already supplying customers with racing cars, why not F1 cars. Haas is the first customer and will probably race using the Ferrari name in some way as the factory take a step back and save money, looking to be like Renault or Honda just supplying bits without the huge expense of running theior own team only to get whipped by some sharp garagistas.

Thats the only way to keep the big 4 in and create enought track action for the hosts and tv contracts.

Lets face it, the last thing Ferrari or RBR need financially is to run 3 cars, RBR are trying to get rid of STR and Ferrari have come to the end of their F1 racing dasys as a factory team in midgrid.

So all these threats of V8s etc is all for the immediate futures - next year, before the customer deals are in place. If Ferrari can get an engine unfreeze delayed from the Feb date till after its IPO they are laughing all the way to the bank. Honda are there to supply bits in the long run, not to be a team themselves, like Renault are

So they just want to bully Merc into conceding some advantage on paper for next year for their own nefarious purposes

bunch of corrupt

[racechick]

You seem to have this arse about face. It's not Merc that are afraid of competition, they're the ones that have played to the agreed rules. The ones who can't stand the heat are Renault and Ferrari. They're the ones afraid of the competition they're up against and so want to change the rules mid game.
As far as I know it's only Ferrari that hold a veto on F1 rules. Merc are simply sticking to the agreed rules that two other players want to change.

[CookinFlat6]

You didn't answer the questions

To stop one team dominating should we have unlimited development and testing to always give the losers a chance to catch up at any time

Simple yes or no, then you can apply your 'poetic license' afterwards

Of course the teams should be allowed to use their designers and engineers to continuously develop and refine their engines in order to be more competitive, it is their job l and it is about what F1 is all about - pushing the envelope. Having them sit on the sidelines all season and not be allowed to do their job because Mercedes is afraid of a little competition is ruining the racing.

The designers and engineers dont sit on the sidelines they can develop at full speed and flat out for the next freez, you dont seem to undertsand this point, there is only a freeze in introducing a new engine spec, at the next window they can introduce an engine thats 10x better than mercs. Its like the transfer window in football, players can move only twice a year, doesnt mean scouts and managers stop working inbetween. Its like Apple releasing a new iphone once a year instead of everytime they change the battery. It means once a year they can bring a better phone than Smasung, but they dont stop woriking on the next iPhone, try get your head around this, the only reason the others are complaining about the freeze is that they are already behind again on next year

I don't know exactly what you mean by unlimited as there are limits to everything and at some point no matter how much time you invest the results diminish. If a team wants to spend their whole budget on their engines I guess it is up to them but I think that they are all smart enough to know how to run their teams and manage resources.

Yes the law of diminishing returns, this is how it was before, unlimited spending, so a team would spend 1 million on a wheelnut that allows it to go 0.00004 secs faster than a wheelnut costing £50. Everyone agreed that if there was a limit put on how much to spend on a wheelnut of £100 then it would save everyone (ALL COMPETITORS) £999,900 for a preformance gain the average ferrari fan would notice unless the wheelnut was painted red.

So the competitors agreed to save money by agreeing to certain things that cost a lot but return small gains - like unlimited testing, like unlimited engine updstaes through the season, you might see where thats going????

I do think that Merc is a valuable player in F1 and should be encouraged to stay however it does appear that they have lost their way when they threaten to veto competition.

They are not vetoing anything, they are refusing to change the rules designed to protect the financial spending for all teams, especially the weak ones who spend the most, like ferrari

So thats a massive fail for you on the question of unlimted development as it was ALL the teams who chose to limit it, yet you are saying they should not limit it and I guess you are gonna fund them from your piggybank, or maybe run a crowd funding exercise to buy ferrari a wheelnut for £1,000,000 because you want unlimited development?

please research some more so you can express your thoughts with credibility as you appear to have something to add to a debate, just never seems to make any sense

[What's Burning?]

You seem to have this arse about face. It's not Merc that are afraid of competition, they're the ones that have played to the agreed rules. The ones who can't stand the heat are Renault and Ferrari. They're the ones afraid of the competition they're up against and so want to change the rules mid game.
As far as I know it's only Ferrari that hold a veto on F1 rules. Merc are simply sticking to the agreed rules that two other players want to change.

I think OB is selectively using the pieces of information that suit him. Ferrari and Renault and Honda have veto power on the engine freeze as well. He keeps trying to draw the false equivalency... I've told his this before but he keeps forgetting. Ferrari got their @ss handed to them and are an embarrassment to Enzo's legacy of engine builders. Even Renault seem to have made a better PU. Let's see what Honda brings to the table next year.

[CookinFlat6]

You seem to have this arse about face. It's not Merc that are afraid of competition, they're the ones that have played to the agreed rules. The ones who can't stand the heat are Renault and Ferrari. They're the ones afraid of the competition they're up against and so want to change the rules mid game.
As far as I know it's only Ferrari that hold a veto on F1 rules. Merc are simply sticking to the agreed rules that two other players want to change.

I think OB is selectively using the pieces of information that suit him. Ferrari and Renault and Honda have veto power on the engine freeze as well. He keeps trying to draw the false equivalency... I've told his this before but he keeps forgetting. Ferrari got their @ss handed to them and are an embarrassment to Enzo's legacy of engine builders. Even Renault seem to have made a better PU. Let's see what Honda brings to the table next year.

An embarrassment is putting it mildly. A complete and utter farce would be a step in the right direction. They have (Luca) wasted more money and resources than anyone else in the history of motorsport and are only still on the grid instead of taking the Lotus, Brabham, March route because of the profits involved in selling caps and handbags to fans, as well as cars to hairdressers and popstars. Luca confirmed the biggest secret in F1 - that ferrari got extra money and a veto BECAUSE he complained to the press bernie wasnt secretely bribing them ENOUGH to stay - I mean that takes the biscuit. Then Luca told us Ferrari would quit F1 and move into LMP1 because of the scope to develop ICE without limitations , pushing the envelope on high tech futuristic BIO FUELS. Luckily he was deposed before embarrasing them anymore when Audi ditched all its bio fuels nonsense and embraced HYBRID ELECTRIC

And the new guy has clear instructions and a mission which does not include staying in F1 in the midgrid despite spending the most and receiving a free extra payout JUST to turn up thats more than some teams spend in a whole year

Its no surprise that Ferrari fans are in a state over this, and its just the start, in a year or so they will be completely unrecognisable from the previous Ferrari