Want New Biofuels? Vote now Yes or No

[CookinFlat6]

I have tried to make this as concise as possible, its worth the read - however reading is optional - just vote
A close look at the campaign to reject electric cars chargeable today with zero emission renewable energy sources. The inconvenience of charging and the marginal current emission cost of depending on soon to be history fossil fuel power stations has been a major weapon used to misinform others and present biofuel promotion campaigns which are largely sponsored by the Oil companies.
As electric charging and battery tech becomes more convenient, we find useless idiots are increasingly pushing a new angle - the carbon negative effects of extracting energy from biofuels. So apparently we should be happy to drive around in cars emitting 60-80% of oils carbon emission because while we are releasing this harmful emission we are ALSO magically removing more than we are releasing
Any one with a brain would wonder - why release carbon from our exhaust pipes when there is an alternative at hand with todays technology? Ah because of human rights abuses in China where these rare Earths materials are mined, never mind that our laptops and mobile phone batteries use the same elements

So instead of waste time with the oil industries useless idiots lets collect and post some info here that has had no hugely funded marketing campaign behind it. Lets see how absurd we can make the single vote above for biofuels over available electric. Basically biofuels come with huge disadvantages and damage to our fragile world and societies that the useless idiots ignore when explaining that we can continue to drive ICE cars and emit almost as much as before but biofuels solve the emission after we emitted it. Lets do the dirty and then clean i up after instead of lets be a little inconvenienced now and breath better and have a slim chance of providing a world for our kids

(before they turn up to complain about being forced to read lengthy posts or moan about 'circular debates - to the usual b!tching moaner - STFU already)
lets start with this to set the tone

Real lives affected by biofuels
The global land grab is forcing violent evictions around the world, robbing land and livelihoods from some of the poorest communities, leaving them unable to feed their families.

Mario Cucul Cu, 29 and his wife Candelaria Choc Pau, 26 with their children in the house they rent in the K'Quinich community.Candelaria Choc Pau, 26 struggles to feed her children since being evicted from land their family had farmed for generations

In the Polochic Valley, Northern Guatemala, indigenous communities were violently evicted from land that has been in their families for generations to make way for plantations growing sugar that could be turned into biofuels to fuel European cars.

>> Learn more about the impacts of land evictions in Guatemala

Interested? ready to move on to the hard stuff?

Biofuels were once touted as the miraculous answer to our energy shortages and fears around climate change. But mounting evidence has exposed this supposedly ‘green fuel’ as the ultimate red herring. Meeting global biofuel targets could force hundreds of millions more people into hunger by 2020.

Industrial biofuels present a false solution to climate change and divert attention from the real changes needed. They were introduced as a ‘renewable energy’ but are not living up to that promise. Far from tackling climate change, most biofuels emit just as many greenhouse gases as the fossil fuels they were designed to replace.

Ok so the useless idiots have now countered this by promising 'MAGICAL' Algae which will actually extract carbon while we drive and are apparently the only solution because we have crossed the TIPPING POINT where reducing carbon is not enough - we have to reduce it (get this) ONE CAR JOURNEY AT A TIME - the car journey means we buy oil mixed with algae bio diesel, but the good part is we are now extracting carbon as we drive

When asked to prove this things get vague, and the shouting and ridiculing of those who 'dont understand the maths' starts, the useless idiots are basically teling us about a small experiment that worked in the lab, and extracted carbon while delivering energy BUT they forget to mention that it is completely unscaleable because (wait for it) there are yards of side effects and consequences we know about and a sh!t load more we will discover as we change things.

They tell us the carbon extracted can be easily and safely LOOKED away, just like that, without cost - magic. when pressed they will say, 'we can use it in construction, there are lots of uses for it'
So nature extracts carbon through trees and plants and feeds it through the natural ecosystem which is self balancing. We come along and grab those plants, release the carbon, then capture PART of it and store it away in a place better than nature intended (nature intended deep in the ground to become fossil fuel locked) - we gonna store it around us as walls and 'lots of other uses' and this will all be very dandy becos the useless idiots say so, and they have predicted and researched everything? lol

Sound familiar?? - YUP thats exactly what happened with the disastrous first wave of bio fuels that are now discredited because they compete with food growing, push up prices etc etc even though the same useless idiots were equally convincing before (see above)

Now the big problem is that for every useless idiot that spews this stuff on a forum, most of the members will see through it and stay silent or ridicule it. However there will always be one who is so dumb and thick that they blindly agree, as they always agree and empathise with the countersocial losers who stand out. And so another level of useless idiot is created, and this level is just as dangerous and ignorant as the first one because by definition it will have an even thicker skin and so will be able to carry the useless idiot manifesto into other areas, like schools or places of worship etc etc

When you have a chain reaction of useless idiots who buy into moronic stuff and will defend them to the last people start thinking they might have a point and so they end up adding their voice to harm their own interests. Lets watch the process - the second level of useless idiot will turn up soon to instinctively side with the first level by complaining about this post, and they wont have read it at all because I can write anything here and they wont know lol

Final quote for today is to look at how the next generation biononsense is already manifesting behind the expensive campaign and useless idiots

See what action aid say about the magical algae and compare it to the snake oil claims and excitement of the useless idiots

Whereas first-generation biofuels (industrial biofuels) use conventional technology and compete with land and crops for food, advanced or second generation biofuels are made using new technological processes and often non-food crops.

These include biofuels from forestry and agricultural wastes, such as stalks from wheat and maize or wood waste. Third-generation biofuels include those made from algae.

ActionAid welcomes any attempt to reduce greenhouse gases and the use of truly waste products. However the sustainability of advanced biofuels is far from guaranteed and member states, including the UK, must put in place sufficient policies and safeguards – such as robust, binding social sustainability criteria - before we embrace this technology.

ActionAid is concerned that creating a market for biofuels from organic waste material, such as straw or wood waste, through setting new targets for advanced biofuels, could inadvertently lead to straw and wood being actually produced primarily for ‘waste’ if the price they fetch as biofuels is higher than for conventional uses. In addition, many waste materials have well established uses that would need to be met if these materials are diverted into biofuels production.

I urge you all to have a look at this site, especially the UK dwellers
http://www.actionaid.org.uk/food-not-fuel?slide=1

[LRW]

Where is the option:

"FFS Cookin' - Do we really need a third biofuel thread?

[CookinFlat6]

level 2 useless idiots dont read the content

[LRW]

You know what Cookin', I can never tell half the time who you are insulting.

So for now I'll stay in blissful ignorance and assume its still Spanky.

[racechick]

Cookie I think anyone who has an interest and/or an ability to understand the issues facing our world will have followed the debate that has been ongoing and taken from it the information they need to form an opinion. The extra thread they may not read, and it will detract from the important discussion that's been raging. In my opinion.

[CookinFlat6]

I hear you RC, it was purely an experiment to illustrate a point - how subliminal methods and group dynamics and peer group acceptance etc have resulted in a big tragedy that according to a charity - action aid - has happened because people were not aware of the decision or choices made on their behalf apparently due to their public opinion - stage 1 biofuels

And that poll and the reaction to it are a microcosm of the issue

Not wanting to insult anyone etc, the term useless idiot is merely derived from a political concept that describes how many will fight to the last stand for something against their own interests, through the process I am illustrating - that on one hand there are those with big funds to continuously push a side of the argument, and on the other side the unfunded charities and peoples action groups turn people off when they manage to get some info into 2 separate threads on an internet forum where its free to post info

on a an F1 thread I dont complain when irrelevant of topic trivia is discussed, or when smutty and peurile stuff is posted repeatedly, why should i complain? I have a choice not to read it. But when something serious is posted over and over then the useless idiot chain reaction kicks into action, like night follows day

mindbogglin, aint it?

[racechick]

I mean no disrespect to people who have contributed information to this issue, I've learnt a lot. I come at it from a teachers perspective.
Ive spent a lot of time studying how children(people) learn. Generally high level concentration when being given facts (spoken facts) lasts for about five minutes (adults as well as children).
Put simply.
Tell a child/person...s/he'll forget.
Show a person....s/he'll remember.
Involve a person ..s/he'll UNDERSTAND.
To apply that to part of the debate at hand , here's a little example.
Tell people about the destruction of rain forests, the killing if endangered species, the loss of homelands and food production.....they won't remember if all.
Show them; tv footage, pictures. They will remember.
Take them out to the destroyed villages, let them walk with the displaced families, see the starvation , help care for the homeless orangutans and they will UNDERSTAND.
We can't do that, all we can do is try to inform people as the aid workers who have been out in the field try to do.

[CookinFlat6]

What we can also do is counter lies and baseless claims made by others who are commenting from any position that can even slightly lend credibility or influence pthers about the content. Moderators, teachers, politicians, reporters and ofcourse any forum member who is able to discredit a post without reading the content.
I know you can take a horse to water etc, but like must be countered with like wherever and whenever possible or we are adding to the problem by letting others post objectionable stuff without objecting

To be clear, i dont have a problem if people dont read something, I dont have a problem if they dont understand something, I dont have a problem if they have a bias

But when they knowingly or unknowingly attempt to stifle the chance of others to read something - then it can start to get ugly

the good thing about this long debate is that we have discovered the best joke post of the century - 'we can start to reverse carbon one fossil fueled car journey at a time'

using biofuel today is not equal to using electricity. If you use the biofuel I have explained you create negative emissions, if you use electricity in, say the UK today, you are "adding" to CO2 in the atmosphere because today nearly 80% of electricity in the UK is fossil fuel generated. Can you really be that .......

:rofl:
Biofuels are created today. They conform to the above equation - yes, I know you can't do the math, but others can Compare to the electricity used "today" in an electric car recharged in the UK. Today, about 80% of that electricity is generated by fossil fuels, meaning you are "adding" to GHG in the atmosphere. SO, today, your electricity "adds" to GHG while today a litre of biofuel used "subtracts" from GHG in the atmosphere.

Zero isn't good enough, we need to reverse at least some of the damage. Using algal or perennial grass biofuel turns us negative on co2 in the atmosphere.

So the above claims are made over and over without a single complaint,

spanky, you've hit the nail on the head:

but someone posts contradictory (and true) info from a non profit charity action group - and what reaction?

WoW! Such articulation! Such skill! No one debates better!

and for bonus points for distracting from the debate

I agree to such an extent that I actually bothered to make the comment in the first place!
I guess the smiley rolling its eyes didn't make the impression it was intended to!! Sigh...

there you have your illustration of the useless idiot chain reaction that got us into gen 1 biofuels that are no cleaner than oil and have brought a whole heap of new issues. And now they are gonna unleash gen 3 on us

[Hammer278]

Spanked was already spanked in the other thread (MIA again), I don't think creating another thread is going to help his courage grow Cooks.

[CookinFlat6]

Its an opinion poll, simple question, simple action required, yes or no, no need to even read the thread

I want to know what those paying tax in the UK think about spending money on these distractions that ultimately benefit the oil industry

And if they dont care enough about it to vote, thats helpful to know in its own way, whats not needed is people not reading the post and complaining about repetition

[Hammer278]

Yep I read through the first 3-4 posts and understood its an opinion poll. Though I don't know if you could really get reliable results when you have a few clowns here who'll try and screw results just so they can. I mean some people here have 3 accounts.

[CookinFlat6]

dosnt even have the balls to come back as F2004 to vote for himself

I must have missed the part in the regulations where it said 'moderators may create Ids with which to insult other members when not sending identical cut and pasted moderation Pms explaining that moderators are not to be argued with in public OR ELSE!!!!

[What's Burning?]

Jeebus cookie, the smell of biofuel is giving me a headache cut it out already!

[CookinFlat6]

that would be the nutrient free algae, Dont worry Im bored with this now, Ill quit as Ive done my karma credit account (hopefully there will be no more provocation) -

We are onto Ferrari competing along the same lines Williams have been since they floated