FORUMula1.com

[What's Burning?]

Hindsight is 20/20...

NO one could have foreseen the difference in power units.

This is Ferrari you're talking about, you're saying they built such a poor engine? This is Ferrari you're talking about, ENZO Ferrari... you're making excuses for his namesake making a poor engine when the engine IS what Ferrari is about? Okay.

NO one seems to have foreseen the disadvantage of the freeze.

What disadvantage of the freeze? Doesn't a freeze mean that ALL TEAMS are prevented from developing their engine? Or are you saying that Ferrari is more affected by the freeze because their engine is the most defficient... if so, see above. Or I guess, in the Ferrari club, the opinion is that only Ferrari would gain on engine power, Mercedes and Renault would remain completely idle, since after all they're not as good at making engines as Ferrari.

NO one anticipated that only one team would get it right.

Have you seen Cookie's signature? Or the comments quite a few of us were making on the Kimi hire back when it was announced? We saw it, I guess Ferrari didn't. Oh well, let's go back to badmouthing the rules Ferrari agreed to and even lobbied to change to further suit them, like going from a straightline 4 cylinder, to a V6 and delaying it for an additional year.

So, NO, it's not question of whether someone else could have
done better!! It's a question of why Ferrari didn't do better!

Finally you put the blame where it belongs... not Renault, not Mercedes, not the FiA but Ferrari. I hope they put a better car on the grid next year cause another year of moping and blaming from their fans would be too much for me to stand.

And its a pity for the f1 fans that we are banned from trying to recover as we did in '03 or as Renault did in '06.

This is a ludicrous statement Spanky... because the freeze affects everyone, Ferrari clearly chose a strategy of sacrificing power for reliability. Renault and Mercedes could develop their engine too you know.

[spankyham]

This is a ludicrous statement Spanky... because the freeze affects everyone, Ferrari clearly chose a strategy of sacrificing power for reliability. Renault and Mercedes could develop their engine too you know.

You make the point earlier that the engine should be a strength of Ferrari, but we all know that Ferrari has been beaten in engine development before, and it will probably happen again. Just like in 2003 we were soundly beaten in the first two races by a very superior Mercedes powered McLaren. Ferrari built a complete new engine - the 052 which replaced the 051 which we started the season with. As we know, that was a riveting season and Ferrari just managed to get home.

I understand that you are enjoying the dominance your team earned with their work leading up to the start of this season. I also understand you don't want any other team to be able to try and catch up. Yes, those are the rule as set down by the FiA, so they stand. But you should not belittle a view that a rule is bad, people are entitled to their view. I also think the double points rule is stupid and I speak against that - is that also a ludicrous position?

[What's Burning?]

This is a ludicrous statement Spanky... because the freeze affects everyone, Ferrari clearly chose a strategy of sacrificing power for reliability. Renault and Mercedes could develop their engine too you know.

You make point earlier that the engine should be a strength of Ferrari, but w all know that Ferrari has been beaten in engine development before, and it will probably happen again. Just like in 2003 we were soundly beaten in the first two races by a very superior Mercedes powered McLaren. Ferrari built a complete new engine - the 052 which replaced the 051 which we started the season with. As we know, that was a riveting season and Ferrari just managed to get home.

I understand that you are enjoying the dominance your team earned with their work leading up to the start of this season. I also understand you don't want any other team to be able to try and catch up. Yes, those are the rule as set down by the FiA, so they stand. But you should not belittle a view that a rule is bad, people are entitled to their view. I also think the double points rule is stupid and I speak against that - is that also a ludicrous position?

Clearly you're picking and choosing. I'm not belittling, I'm saying that Ferrari agreed to the rule after it was modified twice to suit them further still, so now the complaint is that they should have modified the rule further to include in season performance development? So put the car on the grid next year since there's so much gain in store for the Ferrari power plant and I welcome the competition. But we shouldn't be having this discussion here. This is about Bianchi.

[spankyham]

Clearly you're picking and choosing. I'm not belittling, I'm saying that Ferrari agreed to the rule after it was modified twice to suit them further still, so now the complaint is that they should have modified the rule further to include in season performance development? So put the car on the grid next year since there's so much gain in store for the Ferrari power plant and I welcome the competition. But we shouldn't be having this discussion here. This is about Bianchi.

No-one is disputing the rules. And yes Ferrari fought to get changes, and a few times they were partially effective. But as a fan I can have a view that some rules are bad. Ferrari too can believe that some rules are no good. Just like the silly double points - that is a bad rule that I and Luca have spoken against.

Don't worry about this being the Jules thread, we Tifosi are flexible and understanding. What's more, we appreciate points raised. We listen and learn.

[What's Burning?]

Clearly you're picking and choosing. I'm not belittling, I'm saying that Ferrari agreed to the rule after it was modified twice to suit them further still, so now the complaint is that they should have modified the rule further to include in season performance development? So put the car on the grid next year since there's so much gain in store for the Ferrari power plant and I welcome the competition. But we shouldn't be having this discussion here. This is about Bianchi.

No-one is disputing the rules. And yes Ferrari fought to get changes, and a few times they were partially effective. But as a fan I can have a view that some rules are bad. Ferrari too can believe that some rules are no good. Just like the silly double points - that is a bad rule that I and Luca have spoken against.

Don't worry about this being the Jules thread, we Tifosi are flexible and understanding. What's more, we appreciate points raised. We listen and learn.

If nobody like the double points rule... how did it ever get into effect? Can anyone answer that???? This sport never ceases to amaze.

[sagi58]

If nobody like the double points rule... how did it ever get into effect? Can anyone answer that???? This sport never ceases to amaze.

Probably because everyone was thinking of the number of times the WDC has been determined
by ONE blasted point and figured, they might be able to benefit from a double points system.

Peggio per loro!!

[spankyham]

If nobody like the double points rule... how did it ever get into effect? Can anyone answer that???? This sport never ceases to amaze.

Probably because everyone was thinking of the number of times the WDC has been determined
by ONE blasted point and figured, they might be able to benefit from a double points system.

Peggio per loro!!

In the end, the on track and event rules are defined and set by the FiA. Bernie has his input, as do the teams, but the buck stops with the FiA. To be even clearer, a team can be totally opposed to a rule but it can still can be imposed by the FiA. It's true that there are technical committees which put forward ideas to the FiA and these technical committees comprise members of teams, but they are given guidelines to work in and, in the end, the results of their work carry no mandatory weight.

So there is a two-fold problem as I see it. Bernie comes up with harebrained ideas and gimmicks which, anyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size knows is ludicrous, and the second part of the problem, it appears there's no-one at the FiA with an IQ greater than their shoe-size.

[sagi58]

...there is a two-fold problem as I see it. Bernie comes up with harebrained ideas and gimmicks which, anyone with an IQ greater than their shoe size knows is ludicrous, and the second part of the problem, it appears there's no-one at the FiA with an IQ greater than their shoe-size.

[Ferrari man 009]

#KeepFightingJules

[sagi58]

Positive thoughts and lots of prayers!!
Hope he wakes up and this turns out to be nothing serious!!

[spankyham]

Let every day see an improvement for Jules - whatever it takes, we're with you mate

[sagi58]

I'm going to excuse myself from this poll, as I don't know enough about what Ferrari needs in a driver to be successful.
At least, I don't know, after having watched both Alonso and Kimi struggle for such a long time...

[spankyham]

I've finally seen some more coverage of the accident and pieced together the sequence of things.

1) Stupid move by race control to not immediately deploy the SC given the corner and the conditions. If they had heard from Sutil's radio or seen from their monitors that he was OK then race control should have held the tractor until the SC was deployed.

2) This accident wouldn't have happened with the previous V8's. The ludicrous torque from these engines coming out of corners and the effect of harvesting coming into corners is simply dangerous and magnified in the wet. I believe it contributed to this accident. We've watched cars switch back to front all year. A perfect example of just how dangerous these new engines are making racing, watch Lewis as he's closing in on Nico about lap 27. It is harvesting at this point but as he tries to turn in the rear snaps and he runs off the track (he did it on his last lap before pitting the first time as well) and again ran off. He was just lucky there was not raining with standing water as there was for Jules.

3) I didn't see white flags being waved - why not? If not this is yet another failure of race control/officialdom.

[spankyham]

There was a video from the crowd posted on YouTube of Jules's crash. I did watch it. The thing that stood out was there was a marshall waving a green flag right above the Sutil accident which is exactly where Jules would have been looking as he approached the corner.

This is looking worse and worse for the officials IMO.

I really don't think they should race, especially in the wet, until the torque and harvesting impact on the stability of the cars is fixed. In the short term Pirelli need to provide tires with a lot more grip to stabilize corner exit and harvesting must be reduced to last years levels to stabilize corner entry.

[spankyham]

Below is a url to a video of the crash, it is depressing to watch.

The green flag being waved is very clear.

http://gfycat.com/HiddenSleepyIcebluere ... peed=0.125" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;