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#41843
I agree with this assessment. As soon as he's under performance pressure, he falters. He's doing really well with Force India and kudos for coming up with enough motivation to do so.

Potential is nothing if you don't use it. A large part of sport (and other things in life) is your mental strength. Although I don't agree with you on Massa, I certainly do about Fisichella. He's a clown too. :P


I hope you'll have to eat your words about Massa one of these days :wink:
#41845
I agree with this assessment. As soon as he's under performance pressure, he falters. He's doing really well with Force India and kudos for coming up with enough motivation to do so.

Potential is nothing if you don't use it. A large part of sport (and other things in life) is your mental strength. Although I don't agree with you on Massa, I certainly do about Fisichella. He's a clown too. :P


I hope you'll have to eat your words about Massa one of these days :wink:

If he wins the title it will be down to Raikkonen falling asleep or into a drunken stupor and the class of the Ferrari's cars rather than an abundance of skill on his part.

Well, look at it this way. He won three races last year, two in 2006 and already has one this year. He might have his moments, but the man has proved that he can race with and subsequently beat the likes of Schumacher, Raikkonen, Alonso and Hamilton, so I'd hardly say that constitutes being branded a clown. He's a good driver, he just has a tendancy to let things get to him at times. I've seen better drivers, I've seen worse drivers and the worse drivers are by far the bigger party.

In addition, unlike the majority of drivers, he's completely honest about things. He doesn't try to blame his poor performances on the car when he has made a mistake, he just owns up to it. It's a respectable quality and it makes a change from hearing things like "the car wasn't so good" or "the team need to improve" when the reality is that the driver cocked his race up.

He won three races when Raikkonen went into his not-uncommon hibernation mode last season, two races when Schumacher was struggling (and when Ferrari allowed him, it has to be said, to be fair) in 2006, and although he may have won a Grand Prix this season, it far outweighs the laughathon of mistakes he's made. In truth, I am disgusted at the current generation of drivers and their perpetual gurning about a lack of traction control. Try driving twenty years ago in cars with 1500 hp, turbo lag, no semi-automatic gears, no power steering, and little in the way of safety standards. I've seen Massa spin more cars this season than what used to happen in a whole season the 1980s! Massa's overtaking ability is also pathetic for a front-running driver. Yes, it's tough to overtake in the sport now, but, even so, quality drivers have still managed to pull off some good moves, Alonso, Kovalainen, Hamilton and Schumacher immediately come to mind. Massa: he just goes light in qualifying, leads the Grand Prix from the front, being able to achieve success because of the quality of the Ferrari and because the cars are so easy to drive nowadays. In the '80s, little things such as gear changes counted for a hell of a lot more, so Massa wouldn't got away with what he's doing now. Another thing about him is his inability to adapt to various circuits. All drivers have circuits they dislike, but they are at least always able to put in credible performances around them - you would hardly think Ayrton Senna hated Donington, would you? Massa shows up only for Bahrain or Turkey. How has he also been doing against a wide-awake Raikkonen? Not too well it has to be said. If Raikkonen finally has turned a corner and pays attention for all of a season, Ferrari will have the de facto one-two system they were after.
Last edited by McLaren Fan on 30 Apr 08, 08:31, edited 1 time in total.
#41848
If he wins the title it will be down to Raikkonen fall asleep or into a drunken stupor and the class of the Ferrari's cars rather than an abundance of skill on his part.

That's a bit harsh. Wouldn't you give him the benefit of the doubt like you would to any other driver? He could improve his ability to maintain his cool and suddenly drive flawlessly (not likely - who would anyway?) - if so, would you still stand by this your rather condemning assessment?
#41858
If he wins the title it will be down to Raikkonen fall asleep or into a drunken stupor and the class of the Ferrari's cars rather than an abundance of skill on his part.

That's a bit harsh. Wouldn't you give him the benefit of the doubt like you would to any other driver? He could improve his ability to maintain his cool and suddenly drive flawlessly (not likely - who would anyway?) - if so, would you still stand by this your rather condemning assessment?


Now that i think about it all of Massa's victories have come from pole. we don't know how good felipe is because he is in the fastest car and it seems to me he can only win if kimi has a bad day and that is why he isn't as good a driver as others. MF is also right about is overtaking qualities. He is absolutely pathetic at it. He wins by grabbing pole and getting away from the start in one peice relying on the superiority of the ferrari to get him through. If my manager was nicolas todt i would be in the ferrari team and could do everything Massa has done. He is a clown!
#41860
If he wins the title it will be down to Raikkonen falling asleep or into a drunken stupor and the class of the Ferrari's cars rather than an abundance of skill on his part.

That's a bit harsh. Wouldn't you give him the benefit of the doubt like you would to any other driver? He could improve his ability to maintain his cool and suddenly drive flawlessly (not likely - who would anyway?) - if so, would you still stand by this your rather condemning assessment?

Schumacher has already managed to get him to drive less erratically. Schumacher, however, can do nothing for Massa's lack of ability.
#41863
If he wins the title it will be down to Raikkonen falling asleep or into a drunken stupor and the class of the Ferrari's cars rather than an abundance of skill on his part.

That's a bit harsh. Wouldn't you give him the benefit of the doubt like you would to any other driver? He could improve his ability to maintain his cool and suddenly drive flawlessly (not likely - who would anyway?) - if so, would you still stand by this your rather condemning assessment?

Schumacher has already managed to get him to drive less erratically. Schumacher, however, can do nothing for Massa's lack of ability.


He could do plenty. The key is that Massa would have to focus. You can improve at anything. My writing used to be, quite honestly, crap and uncreative, but last summer I wrote something that a lot of people told me to submit for publishing. Overtaking could be improved simply by focussing on the theory, looking at your driving style and adapting it to the circumstances.

All drivers have their shortcomings, some make up for them with other abilities, others don't. But look at it this way. If someone wasn't good enough, they wouldn't be driving in a Formula 1 car. It's the reason a lot of people get sacked.
#41866
If he wins the title it will be down to Raikkonen falling asleep or into a drunken stupor and the class of the Ferrari's cars rather than an abundance of skill on his part.

That's a bit harsh. Wouldn't you give him the benefit of the doubt like you would to any other driver? He could improve his ability to maintain his cool and suddenly drive flawlessly (not likely - who would anyway?) - if so, would you still stand by this your rather condemning assessment?

Schumacher has already managed to get him to drive less erratically. Schumacher, however, can do nothing for Massa's lack of ability.


He could do plenty. The key is that Massa would have to focus. You can improve at anything. My writing used to be, quite honestly, crap and uncreative, but last summer I wrote something that a lot of people told me to submit for publishing. Overtaking could be improved simply by focussing on the theory, looking at your driving style and adapting it to the circumstances.

All drivers have their shortcomings, some make up for them with other abilities, others don't. But look at it this way. If someone wasn't good enough, they wouldn't be driving in a Formula 1 car. It's the reason a lot of people get sacked.

I was, of course, exaggerating slightly, but effort can only take you so far. You are better to only have 80% of the required ability with 100% commitment, but if you've only got 50% of the ability, you will struggle to compete with the top guys no matter how much work you put in. I found that in my own field of academics, which is very competative at the top level. There are some folk with a lot of ability, but who don't put in a lot of effort, but still managed to achieve moderate success. There are people aren't especially gifted but who work are their backside off and reap moderate success. And there are people who are very gifted and very committed to work and they destroy everybody. Massa is in the second category. Raikkonen, when he puts his mind to things - and I think he has wised-up this season - is in the last category. Massa may win a few races and get a title. The likes of Raikkonen will win a lot more races and a lot more titles.
#41869
Ah Massa is s***! Why can't Ferrari just change policy and instead of having 1 good driver and one not so great, have 2 great drivers instead. In other words ditch Massa for Alonso and have Raikonnen and Alonso for 2009. McLaren did it in the late 80s with Senna and Prost. :D
#41874
Ah Massa is s***! Why can't Ferrari just change policy and instead of having 1 good driver and one not so great, have 2 great drivers instead. In other words ditch Massa for Alonso and have Raikonnen and Alonso for 2009. McLaren did it in the late 80s with Senna and Prost. :D


I think Alonso is much happier with Piquet as his team-mate.
#41877
Ah Massa is s***! Why can't Ferrari just change policy and instead of having 1 good driver and one not so great, have 2 great drivers instead. In other words ditch Massa for Alonso and have Raikonnen and Alonso for 2009. McLaren did it in the late 80s with Senna and Prost. :D


I think Alonso is much happier with Piquet as his team-mate.


I honestly think that Alonso would put up with kimi as his team mate if it meant he would be in the title hunt
#41882

I honestly think that Alonso would put up with kimi as his team mate if it meant he would be in the title hunt


he was in the title hunt and couldnt put up with Hamilton


that is different lewis was a rookie and Alonso assumed (wrongly) that he would be number 1 and get preferential treatment. If he goes to Ferrari he knows that he would not be number 1
#41894
I want to see drivers of quality win world titles. Massa is not one of those. It's sad to see clowns like him get success when there have been stacks of better drivers out there who weren't so lucky to be in the right car at the right time (or Massa's case be brought in as Schumacher's tea boy).


Well, look at it this way. He won three races last year, two in 2006 and already has one this year. He might have his moments, but the man has proved that he can race with and subsequently beat the likes of Schumacher, Raikkonen, Alonso and Hamilton, so I'd hardly say that constitutes being branded a clown. He's a good driver, he just has a tendancy to let things get to him at times. I've seen better drivers, I've seen worse drivers and the worse drivers are by far the bigger party.

In addition, unlike the majority of drivers, he's completely honest about things. He doesn't try to blame his poor performances on the car when he has made a mistake, he just owns up to it. It's a respectable quality and it makes a change from hearing things like "the car wasn't so good" or "the team need to improve" when the reality is that the driver cocked his race up.

+1

Also FA will not be driving for Ferrari atleast not anytime in the near future but this is F1 which is a 'shell game' for driver's so who know's? I hope it never happen's as I would like to see FA help bring Renault back into championship contending form.
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