FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[LewEngBridewell]

The thought struck me that Red Bull went from having one of the least popular drivers as their lead man, to one of the most popular drivers as their lead man in just half a season.

Yeah but out of the two, I'd still bed Seb.

[sagi58]

Personally, I thought it was ironic that Horner/Red Bull went from giving team orders last season to backing a driver for ignoring them, this season!
I guess, like me, he learns something new every day!!

[What's Burning?]

I gotta say I respect the guy's abilities but I completely disagree with his assessment. The cars "looking" the same on the outside is simple convergence of optimum design, cars don't have to "look" differently for there to be competion. The reliance on aero had stifled overtaking and Newey comes off a some serious sour grapes having his inherent advantage in evolving the 2009 spec car taken away from him. The cars are very different under the skin, and what the sport had to do with gimmicks like DRS and tires to spice up the overtaking that the over reliance on aero had done made the sport bland and took the spotlight off of the real talent of drivers. So what? We want to see Vettel with his "special" technique that only he learned to drive a trick car? That's driving?

Look at what's happening up and down the grid today, cars going sideways drivers having their hands full accelerating out of corners and really having to have talent in dialing in a car. I much prefer that over aero gimmicks that only Newey can exploit that made Vettel look like the driving god he clearly wasn't. GET OVER IT AND GO MAKE TOY BOATS, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

ESPNF1 Adrian Newey has warned that Formula One's restrictive regulations pose the danger of making the series look like a single-make formula.

Newey will step back from Formula One at the end of this year to pursue other projects with Red Bull and has admitted F1's tightening rule book is part of the reason for his decision. Windtunnel and CFD work has been capped further this year, limiting the potential for development, while the rules regarding the car's aerodynamics become ever tighter.

"There have been a whole host of factors playing their parts in my decision to leave F1, and a lot of mixed emotions," he told the latest issue of Motor Sport. "I felt it was time to challenge myself in something different and that's certainly a factor.

"But at the same time I do think the regs have become too restrictive. We're in danger, chassis-wise, of becoming GP1. Everybody's converging on cars that look more and more similar. We're back to 'paint the cars white and it's difficult to spot the difference' - especially next year when we even lose the different noses."

In the interview, Newey summed up the current situation in F1 by saying: "My fellow F1 technical directors have been like turkeys voting for Christmas."

[NHcheese]

I gotta say I respect the guy's abilities but I completely disagree with his assessment. The cars "looking" the same on the outside is simple convergence of optimum design, cars don't have to "look" differently for there to be competion. The reliance on aero had stifled overtaking and Newey comes off a some serious sour grapes having his inherent advantage in evolving the 2009 spec car taken away from him. The cars are very different under the skin, and what the sport had to do with gimmicks like DRS and tires to spice up the overtaking that the over reliance on aero had done made the sport bland and took the spotlight off of the real talent of drivers. So what? We want to see Vettel with his "special" technique that only he learned to drive a trick car? That's driving?

Look at what's happening up and down the grid today, cars going sideways drivers having their hands full accelerating out of corners and really having to have talent in dialing in a car. I much prefer that over aero gimmicks that only Newey can exploit that made Vettel look like the driving god he clearly wasn't. GET OVER IT AND GO MAKE TOY BOATS, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

ESPNF1 Adrian Newey has warned that Formula One's restrictive regulations pose the danger of making the series look like a single-make formula.

Newey will step back from Formula One at the end of this year to pursue other projects with Red Bull and has admitted F1's tightening rule book is part of the reason for his decision. Windtunnel and CFD work has been capped further this year, limiting the potential for development, while the rules regarding the car's aerodynamics become ever tighter.

"There have been a whole host of factors playing their parts in my decision to leave F1, and a lot of mixed emotions," he told the latest issue of Motor Sport. "I felt it was time to challenge myself in something different and that's certainly a factor.

"But at the same time I do think the regs have become too restrictive. We're in danger, chassis-wise, of becoming GP1. Everybody's converging on cars that look more and more similar. We're back to 'paint the cars white and it's difficult to spot the difference' - especially next year when we even lose the different noses."

In the interview, Newey summed up the current situation in F1 by saying: "My fellow F1 technical directors have been like turkeys voting for Christmas."

To be honest, I would prefer a more driver based formula, but it would destroy the point of F1, as in, less area for techinical inovation, it is just a balancing act for the FIA to make everyone happy. Also Newey only says this as he is a designer, I think people like Grosjean might have a different view on the matter.

[Frontrunner]

Renault declares Red Bull new "works team"

PaddockTalk.com
For the first time, Renault has declared Red Bull as its official 'works team'.
Recently, amid a Red Bull-pressured restructuring of the struggling French supplier, Cyril Abiteboul returned from Caterham to head Renault's preparations for a stronger 2015.

He admitted to Germany's Auto Motor und Sport that not making Red Bull its clear focus for the new turbo V6 era was a mistake by Renault.

"Renault has tried in recent years to treat all four of its customers equally," Abiteboul said.

"From the perspective of Caterham, where I worked a year ago, it was nice. But for Red Bull it was counterproductive," he explained.

So Abiteboul declared that, now, Renault's "works team is called Red Bull".

He therefore dismissed claims that Red Bull has or intends to take over so much responsibility on the engine side that it is planning for a future with its very own 'power unit'.

"Red Bull is a chassis manufacturer and that's what they want to focus on," said Abiteboul.

"Development of an engine is a far too complex task to be established quickly. But it is true that there will be a much closer integration between Red Bull and Renault."

It has been rumoured, for instance, that Red Bull will exclusively take over the entire electronic side of the project, with Renault remaining in charge of the engine.

Renault, Total and Red Bull's title sponsor Infiniti are expected to contribute the funding.

Abiteboul replied: "We are in the process of distributing the tasks as efficiently as possible.

"The question is where Red Bull can help us in the best way. The plan should be decided at the latest by October."

[Hammer278]

Interesting. Obviously they finally got it in their heads that they need a dedicated works team in order to compete at the sharp end.

So we effectively have 2 tiers in F1 now. First tier teams from 2015 being Mercedes, Ferrari Redbull, McLaren....8 potentially competitive (winning) seats. The rest are 2nd tier.

[Jabberwocky]

I thought that they had been made the works team years ago

Sent using NCC-1701

[CookinFlat6]

before they were the works team in principle, but in reality were just a preffered customer - the engine was made for all customers
Now they are more integrated, and in reality means RBR are spending more directly on engine. So the customers will get something RBR have helped make

[CookinFlat6]

Interesting. Obviously they finally got it in their heads that they need a dedicated works team in order to compete at the sharp end.

So we effectively have 2 tiers in F1 now. First tier teams from 2015 being Mercedes, Ferrari Redbull, McLaren....8 potentially competitive (winning) seats. The rest are 2nd tier.

3 tiers - Merc/Ferrari - fully integrated then RBR/McLaren - built in tandem - then the customers - the biggest difference I reckon being how seperate the engine/chassis budgets are in each case. E.g Renault are a business and cant justify spending double the amount needed for a decent engine to have the very best, whereas RBr probably dont care about a profitable engine just about winning which is where they see a return. And Honda will probably spend big but wisely over a longer period instead of over the top for the extra 1/10th in the first year

[What's Burning?]

The conversations about what's happened this year and the driver comparisons have to be fascinating at Red Bull. We hear drivers all the time talking about the overlays and we've seen and heard examples of that from both Ferrari and Mercedes, so you know it's got to be happening at Red Bull as well. The question must be why can't one driver match the other driver's overlay when they know where they're picking up speed, shifting, points, accelerating out of corners, braking, how hard they brake, when they brake, etc. It's got to be baffling.

ESPNF1 Red Bull boss Christian Horner is expecting Sebastian Vettel to find his form in the remaining races of the season and take the fight to team-mate Daniel Ricciardo.

After notching up his fourth successive drivers' title last year, Vettel has struggled to adapt to the new regulations and has been out-qualified and out-raced by Ricciardo. At the Italian Grand Prix last weekend, Vettel showed improved form but was still beaten by his team-mate on a different strategy.

However, Horner believes Monza marked a turning point for Vettel and is expecting him to be much closer to Ricciardo for the remaining six races.

"It's been a difficult year for Seb, but that has not been of his own making," Horner said. "Daniel's driven incredibly well. All credit should be given to Daniel for the way he has driven this year, so it's going to be a fascinating final third of the year to see how it all pans out.

"Sebastian seemed reasonably happy with the car in qualifying and the early stages of the race [at Monza], so it was nothing to do with a lack of pace, it was how the two strategies worked out."

Even though Ricciardo has an outside chance of taking the title if the two Mercedes drivers clash on track, Horner said Vettel is free to race him.

"We let the drivers race, we trust them and they race hard and wheel-to-wheel really fairly. The points difference between Daniel and the two Mercedes is enormous, so it doesn't make sense for us to interfere with the two drivers racing. It's down to what they do on track."

Horner is hoping this weekend's Singapore Grand Prix will play to the strengths of the Red Bull more than recent races in Belgium and Italy.

"Hopefully in Singapore there's a few more corners and few less straights! We are looking forward to going back to Singapore and it's a track that we always go well at. But there's no guarantees in this business, we expect Mercedes to be incredibly quick there, we expect Williams to be a factor because they have been throughout the summer. It's going to be as tight as ever, but hopefully we will be closer to the ultimate pace than we were in Monza."

[CookinFlat6]

Its about gonads, as Nico and Button both demonstrated in Monza. If one driver will brake 30 meteres from corner then control the back end using throttle or steering input alone - the other driver will see this as totally alien and will not have the confidence (gonads) to do the same. They will ofcourse have excuses - no grip, prefer more back end, etc etc, buit ultimately they are too scared to do what the other guy is doing.

this is why guys like Lewis and alonso are siad to be adaptable etc, really means brave enough to do what needs to be done in whatever type of handling car. And they will start to do it almost immediately - no fear, trust in their own ability to operate on the limit and not lose it (lewis even more than Al)

With Button and Seb, Button trying the late braking against Kyvat just didnt even brake he just went straight on because he couldnt trust himself to brake that late yet m,ake the corner despite the evidence that Kyvat could - but different cars I guess

Seb can look at Danny rics data all day and superimpose his traces, but on the track he just isnt comfortable having to go round the corner with the arse end threatening to overtake the front end right after the apex. Thats why the best drivers can adpat the others cant and like Button have an excuse like I had no grip - ofcourse you had no grip sonny, none has grip, its just some deal with the imminent loss of adhesion better, they can sense it better, Button is too scared to go near that limit so he slows down and says there was no grip

Im sure seb has his own excuse, maybe my chassis was creaking

[sagi58]

...The question must be why can't one driver match the other driver's overlay when they know where they're picking up speed, shifting, points, accelerating out of corners, braking, how hard they brake, when they brake, etc. It's got to be baffling.

Aside from the confidence and the guts, I'm sure it's to do with driving style.
I've simplified it, for my own understanding, by comparing myself and other
drivers I travel with regularly. Throw into that highway vs city driving, traffic
and weather conditions and it's a fairly straightforward comparison. Where
some people can adapt themselves to any and all conditions or can adapt to
whatever vehicle they are behind the wheel of, others aren't as adaptable.

[What's Burning?]

Oooh... cautious optimism.

And team boss Christian Horner added: "I will not say it too loudly, but I have a feeling Sebastian will win in Singapore."

[CookinFlat6]

Oooh... cautious optimism.

And team boss Christian Horner added: "I will not say it too loudly, but I have a feeling Sebastian will win in Singapore."

not a Danny Ricc crash in the 6th lap surely

[Hammer278]

Oooh... cautious optimism.

And team boss Christian Horner added: "I will not say it too loudly, but I have a feeling Sebastian will win in Singapore."

I have a feeling I'll get a last minute call at Mercedes to replace Rosberg and I'll win the Singapore GP.