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[CookinFlat6]

Get a grip!! NOT everyone watches F1 just because Hamilton drives.

errm, the only mention of Hamilton in that appraisal of those who substitute F1 with religion and/or politics was from you!!!

Actually, it was YOU that mentioned blind worship.
I do NOT make the connection between Religion and F1!

Now sagi, would you call this the makings of a circular pointless discussion or would you call it a tangent - shifting goalpost argument,

I actually think it has the makings of something that cannot exist, according to what we do know about geometry and pendantry

This is a circular that shifts goalposts at a precise tangent at precise points and once you do the calculus - the tangents are a circle after all

[sagi58]

Get a grip!! NOT everyone watches F1 just because Hamilton drives.

errm, the only mention of Hamilton in that appraisal of those who substitute F1 with religion and/or politics was from you!!!

Actually, it was YOU that mentioned blind worship.
I do NOT make the connection between Religion and F1!

Now sagi, would you call this the makings of a circular pointless discussion or would you call it a tangent - shifting goalpost argument,

I actually think it has the makings of something that cannot exist, according to what we do know about geometry and pendantry

This is a circular that shifts goalposts at a precise tangent at precise points and once you do the calculus - the tangents are a circle after all

Uh-huh! So, when YOU read between the lines and come to conclusions, it's OK!
But, when I do it, I'm making assumptions?

Got it!

[What's Burning?]

Get a grip!! NOT everyone watches F1 just because Hamilton drives.

Not everyone watches F1 because Ferrari participates. Yet you've gone on at lenght as to how they're the most valuable, favorite, popular team in the sport. As much as you dislike the fact, Hamilton is the Driver equivalent to that phenomena.

it's also difficult to read more than a couple of posts without someone making a derrogatory comment about Ferrari, Alonso, et al, in pretty well every thread. to bother with!!

To be fair, Ferrari have given their detractors plenty of meat on the bones to pick on this year.

[sagi58]

Get a grip!! NOT everyone watches F1 just because Hamilton drives.

Not everyone watches F1 because Ferrari participates. Yet you've gone on at lenght as to how they're the most valuable, favorite, popular team in the sport. As much as you dislike the fact, Hamilton is the Driver equivalent to that phenomena.

Actually, Schumi did it before Hamilton, without the aid of Social Media.
I do agree with you, Hamilton LIKE Ferrari and LIKE Schumi has polarized F1, in their respective time.

it's also difficult to read more than a couple of posts without someone making a derrogatory comment about Ferrari, Alonso, et al, in pretty well every thread. to bother with!!

To be fair, Ferrari have given their detractors plenty of meat on the bones to pick on this year.

And, to be fair, how is Hamilton any different? Does he not give his detractors plenty of fodder?

Don't you see? Ferrari, Schumi, Hamilton are NOT that different,
when it comes to people who love them and people who don't!!

[CookinFlat6]

Get a grip!! NOT everyone watches F1 just because Hamilton drives.

Not everyone watches F1 because Ferrari participates. Yet you've gone on at lenght as to how they're the most valuable, favorite, popular team in the sport. As much as you dislike the fact, Hamilton is the Driver equivalent to that phenomena.

Actually, Schumi did it before Hamilton, without the aid of Social Media.

Errm actually sagi, i know you were not watching F1 then, and I dont want to be the bearer of shattering news, but Lewis and MS had opposite effects on the follwoing of F1

MS caused the audience to decline and Hamilton cause the audience to surge - FACT

MS was a pretty unpopular champion compared to the Sennas and even Prosts, viewers turned off en masse, only in Germany did he really bring people in, Mika Hakkinnen was much more popular when they were head to head. And ofcourse all the parking the car in quali and driving into his teammate didnt help.

You just gonna have to grin and bear it sagi, Lewis is the biggest draw in F1 and you are gonna be seeing his picture (and his gf's) on your cornflakes packet when you wake up in the morning soon

[What's Burning?]

[youtube]2YY0xw5r1ro[/youtube]

[Roth]

Hamilton came in the year after Schumacher left. It was Ferrari domination people didn't like, and he was part of that. Hamilton's initial success was exciting but audiences dropped off under the RB domination too, even with Hamilton pootling around the track.

[What's Burning?]

And, to be fair, how is Hamilton any different? Does he not give his detractors plenty of fodder?

How so? By having his brake explode and causing him to crash and having to start at the back of the grid? By having his car catch on fire and having to start from the grid? Or by having his teammate purposely breaching his car during qualifying in Monaco so he couldn't complete his timed lap guaranteeing Nico the pole? Or maybe by having his teammate purposely choosing to crash into him causing him to DNF?

I guess Lewis would be very glad not to give his detractors that much fodder, but those are things that are somewhat beyond his control. You could say you don't like his comments off track, or whatever but what do I care. I judge my drivers on what they do behind the wheel, not in their private lives. I mean unless they're beating up their girlfriend or something like that. It's all good.

[What's Burning?]

Hamilton's initial success was exciting but audiences dropped off under the RB domination too, even with Hamilton pootling around the track.

Hamilton won quite a few races during Red Bull's domination. I'm glad you recognize Vettel should be doing the same.

[CookinFlat6]

Hamilton came in the year after Schumacher left. It was Ferrari domination people didn't like, and he was part of that. Hamilton's initial success was exciting but audiences dropped off under the RB domination too, even with Hamilton pootling around the track.

So you are agreeing with me - MS cause numbers to fall, and Lewis caused numbers to rise, and at the same time completely change the focus - I was talking SPECIFICALLY about MS' popularity and pull of those who watched ONLY for MS vs those who were pulled in and stay ONLY for lewis

whats RB domination gotta do with it? Sagi compared MS, ferrari and Lewis, I suggested that Lewis and MS had different effects and, Lewis is more comparable to Ferrari because those 2 are massive brands on their own. By simple logic we can see that lewis himself is already bigger (brand) than some of the teams, definetely not Merc or McLaren though, and maybe not Ferrari

[Roth]

Hamilton came in the year after Schumacher left. It was Ferrari domination people didn't like, and he was part of that. Hamilton's initial success was exciting but audiences dropped off under the RB domination too, even with Hamilton pootling around the track.

So you are agreeing with me - MS cause numbers to fall, and Lewis caused numbers to rise, and at the same time completely change the focus - I was talking SPECIFICALLY about MS' popularity and pull of those who watched ONLY for MS vs those who were pulled in and stay ONLY for lewis

whats RB domination gotta do with it? Sagi compared MS, ferrari and Lewis, I suggested that Lewis and MS had different effects and, Lewis is more comparable to Ferrari because those 2 are massive brands on their own. By simple logic we can see that lewis himself is already bigger (brand) than some of the teams, definetely not Merc or McLaren though, and maybe not Ferrari

Ferrari domination was like RB domination. Hamilton was nothing to do with the first, but drove through the second and, as WB pointed out, despite him winning some races, the numbers still dropped off. So you can't say people watch for Hamilton and not for MS. They watch for exciting racing. Domination doesn't offer that. Hamilton came in at a time when the slate was wiped clean, so I imagine people tuned in for something a bit more fresh and exciting (although 05 and 06 were actually great seasons), then fell off again with RB. Numbers aren't great this year either, track attendance is appaling at some races, depsite Hamilton being in a very fast car, but again, it's a dominant car and the noise is funny and the cars are a bit slow.

You can't say one driver is the sole cause for viewing figures.

[CookinFlat6]

RB domination was like Ferrari domination. Hamilton was nothing to do with the first, but drove through the second and, as WB pointed out, despite him winning some races, the numbers still dropped off..

irelevant to the point you were arguing, many watch F1 just for ferrari - if its boring they leave etc, if ferrari are not winning they might leave - same as lewis - those who watch for him might go off F1, MS turned many fans off F1 - different point

So you can't say people watch for Hamilton and not for MS. They watch for exciting racing. Domination doesn't offer that..

But roth, you are always telling us that everyone is always on about lewis, you even said every thread was infiltrated by Lewis (not sure the actual words, I get confused with you, spanks and sagi) - again some sportsmen have a following some dont so much - this is not hard to understand - think Kimi and then think Seb

Hamilton came in at a time when the slate was wiped clean, so I imagine people tuned in for something a bit more fresh and exciting (although 05 and 06 were actually great seasons), then fell off again with RB..

Nope the slate was wiped clean in 2006 when Alonso displaced MS

Numbers aren't great this year either, track attendance is appaling at some races, depsite Hamilton being in a very fast car, but again, it's a dominant car and the noise is funny and the cars are a bit slow..

numbers are down for a lot of reasons, pay tv being a big part, people stop watching on tv and that means less people take the plunge to go tp a real race

You can't say one driver is the sole cause for viewing figures.

Who said that??? sagi said ferrari, ms and lewis had followers - i said lewis and ms affected audiences in opposite ways, Lewis ATTRACTED a new type to F1, MS turned offf existing audiences - where does that equate to a driver is the sole cause for viewing figures???

[Roth]

Your basic point was:

"MS caused the audience to decline and Hamilton cause the audience to surge - FACT"

and that Lewis is the biggest drawcard in F1

I said it's not that simple, he's not arresting the decline. You're just making it all about fabbo Hamilton again. I called you out on your attempted belittling of sagi, and you descend into pedantry.

[CookinFlat6]

who said arresting decline??

Ms caused people to switch off, Lewis attracted a new bunch of people, Tiger did the same in golf, your pain is amusing, when you are able to make that staement wrong then come back with the facts, in the meantime amuse us with your butthurt denial

you complain everyone goes on about him, then you say no one really does

and with MS it wasnt MS people had enough off? it was Ferrari did you say?

Next you will say MS' famous antics caused a whole bunch of people to stay watching and maybe even attracted a new bunch??

[spankyham]

From 95, when Shumi joined Ferrari, into the 2000's F1 audiences rose. Anyone saying anything else is talking utter

The last decade has been pretty much steady decline with 2010 as the exception. IMO the 2010 blip was because 3 teams and 5 drivers had a chance to win right up to the end of the season.