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[racechick]

To a certain degree. Both unlovable characters but Michael never screwed or badmouthed his team-Alonso has.

Maybe you have a short memory... can't you remember what happens on those days, when Ferrari didn't get results?... He blamed the team on each race.

No I honestly cant remember him blaming the team. I can remember him saying we need to make the car faster/more reliable etc but I cant remember an outright criticism- even when it blatently was the team. (Im sticking up for him here and I never liked the guy!!!)

And we're all proud of you for that

Another case of 'in the closet', eh? When are you coming out? Just admit it, you miss MS - and not just to be able to badmouth him, no, you genuinely miss him cuz ya luv 'm

Oh Poo! Dont love him!! he's one of my worst...but even around him I hate untruths.

[texasmr2]

Oh Poo! Dont love him!! he's one of my worst...but even around him I hate untruths.

Everyone hate's a winner even more so if their beloved team was beaten by their most hated rival. The TRUE TIFOSI still luv you though!

[al4x]

racechick are you a closet ms fan, i had an inkling

[racechick]

Yeuch!! On all fronts! And Tex what you mean "beat my beloved team"? I support the driver! So what Wiliams? Jordan ? McLaren?

[texasmr2]

Yeuch!! On all fronts! And Tex what you mean "beat my beloved team"? I support the driver! So what Wiliams? Jordan ? McLaren?

Do I really have to explain myself as the truth is plain to see?

[nikon133]

schumi would have if Ferrari treated him as equal to irvine or barrichello when he was clearly a better all round package

Me think the same.

[nikon133]

To a certain degree. Both unlovable characters but Michael never screwed or badmouthed his team-Alonso has.

Yes, that may be correct about MS, but the only reason FA said those things were because Mclaren was screwing FA first with their blind love for LH. I would re-act as well but FA did not play the percentage game. I said it before many time, he should have kept his mouth shut and do the talking on track, because it would have been far more annoying to LH if FA was still at Mclaren. But FA is not the perfect man, however, he still is a great driver and miles ahead of LH as a driver.

I wouldn't say he's miles ahead as a racetrack driver, but as a driver capable of developing car - yes. In my eyes, that makes him more desirable asset.

Maybe it's just coincidence, but looking so far into 2008, McLaren's strongest performance in the last couple of years was the year they had Alonso. Likewise, Renault was shining with Alonso, crumbled to dust when Alonso left, and is bouncing back to life with Alonso back on board.

But maybe it is just a coincidence.

[nikon133]

To a certain degree. Both unlovable characters but Michael never screwed or badmouthed his team-Alonso has.

Maybe you have a short memory... can't you remember what happens on those days, when Ferrari didn't get results?... He blamed the team on each race.

No I honestly cant remember him blaming the team. I can remember him saying we need to make the car faster/more reliable etc but I cant remember an outright criticism- even when it blatently was the team. (Im sticking up for him here and I never liked the guy!!!)

And we're all proud of you for that

Another case of 'in the closet', eh? When are you coming out? Just admit it, you miss MS - and not just to be able to badmouth him, no, you genuinely miss him cuz ya luv 'm

Well, I'll say it - I am missing MS like I'd miss Dart Vader in Star Wars movie. You just can't have good fun without proper (and capable) villain

[bud]

To a certain degree. Both unlovable characters but Michael never screwed or badmouthed his team-Alonso has.

Yes, that may be correct about MS, but the only reason FA said those things were because Mclaren was screwing FA first with their blind love for LH. I would re-act as well but FA did not play the percentage game. I said it before many time, he should have kept his mouth shut and do the talking on track, because it would have been far more annoying to LH if FA was still at Mclaren. But FA is not the perfect man, however, he still is a great driver and miles ahead of LH as a driver.

I wouldn't say he's miles ahead as a racetrack driver, but as a driver capable of developing car - yes. In my eyes, that makes him more desirable asset.

Maybe it's just coincidence, but looking so far into 2008, McLaren's strongest performance in the last couple of years was the year they had Alonso. Likewise, Renault was shining with Alonso, crumbled to dust when Alonso left, and is bouncing back to life with Alonso back on board.

But maybe it is just a coincidence.

Alonso wouldnt have made a big difference last year for Renault, their issues were from losing Michelin more than anything

[nikon133]

To a certain degree. Both unlovable characters but Michael never screwed or badmouthed his team-Alonso has.

Yes, that may be correct about MS, but the only reason FA said those things were because Mclaren was screwing FA first with their blind love for LH. I would re-act as well but FA did not play the percentage game. I said it before many time, he should have kept his mouth shut and do the talking on track, because it would have been far more annoying to LH if FA was still at Mclaren. But FA is not the perfect man, however, he still is a great driver and miles ahead of LH as a driver.

I wouldn't say he's miles ahead as a racetrack driver, but as a driver capable of developing car - yes. In my eyes, that makes him more desirable asset.

Maybe it's just coincidence, but looking so far into 2008, McLaren's strongest performance in the last couple of years was the year they had Alonso. Likewise, Renault was shining with Alonso, crumbled to dust when Alonso left, and is bouncing back to life with Alonso back on board.

But maybe it is just a coincidence.

Alonso wouldnt have made a big difference last year for Renault, their issues were from losing Michelin more than anything

Well, that is darn hard to tell. McLaren also lost Michelin last year, yet had best performance and reliability in the recent years.

[bud]

yeah but McLaren didnt rely on the Michelin partnership as much as Renault and they suffered on the Bridgestones in 07, Renault even admitted that.

no doubt Alonso can give good feed back to his engineers but to suggest he is the reason for McLarens form last year and Renaults pace in Spain is an insult to the hard working engineers of both teams. Unless youre saying Alonso instigated in his feed back to try the engine cover by Redbull or he asked for the wheel rim covers and so on.

[Denthúl]

yeah but McLaren didnt rely on the Michelin partnership as much as Renault and they suffered on the Bridgestones in 07, Renault even admitted that.

no doubt Alonso can give good feed back to his engineers but to suggest he is the reason for McLarens form last year and Renaults pace in Spain is an insult to the hard working engineers of both teams. Unless youre saying Alonso instigated in his feed back to try the engine cover by Redbull or he asked for the wheel rim covers and so on.

I think on the development aspect is is fair to say that McLaren and Renault both gained a lot from him. Everybody knows the engineers do a spectacular job, but they can't create the best car without a driver who has a lot of experience and knows what will improve the car and what won't.

A driver doesn't have to say that a team needs to try a particular part for them to be asking for it. They'll simply say that they want something to change, and by knowing the desired effect the engineers can then come up with something or try an existing idea. No driver is responsible for all the improvements on a car. Likewise, no engineer is, either.

[bud]

yeah but McLaren didnt rely on the Michelin partnership as much as Renault and they suffered on the Bridgestones in 07, Renault even admitted that.

no doubt Alonso can give good feed back to his engineers but to suggest he is the reason for McLarens form last year and Renaults pace in Spain is an insult to the hard working engineers of both teams. Unless youre saying Alonso instigated in his feed back to try the engine cover by Redbull or he asked for the wheel rim covers and so on.

I think on the development aspect is is fair to say that McLaren and Renault both gained a lot from him. Everybody knows the engineers do a spectacular job, but they can't create the best car without a driver who has a lot of experience and knows what will improve the car and what won't.

A driver doesn't have to say that a team needs to try a particular part for them to be asking for it. They'll simply say that they want something to change, and by knowing the desired effect the engineers can then come up with something or try an existing idea. No driver is responsible for all the improvements on a car. Likewise, no engineer is, either.

they started design on the MP4 22 while Fernando was still only a one time champion and fighting Micheal Schumacher for his second
engineers play a larger role than driver in terms of outright pace. Driver can give good feed back for setups yeah but major technical advances NO. an engineer doesnt need a driver to say they want more grip more speed and more torque, they already know that. and if your cars not the fastest then ofcourse the engineer knows he has work to do he doesnt need a driver to tell em they need to make improvements.

[Denthúl]

yeah but McLaren didnt rely on the Michelin partnership as much as Renault and they suffered on the Bridgestones in 07, Renault even admitted that.

no doubt Alonso can give good feed back to his engineers but to suggest he is the reason for McLarens form last year and Renaults pace in Spain is an insult to the hard working engineers of both teams. Unless youre saying Alonso instigated in his feed back to try the engine cover by Redbull or he asked for the wheel rim covers and so on.

I think on the development aspect is is fair to say that McLaren and Renault both gained a lot from him. Everybody knows the engineers do a spectacular job, but they can't create the best car without a driver who has a lot of experience and knows what will improve the car and what won't.

A driver doesn't have to say that a team needs to try a particular part for them to be asking for it. They'll simply say that they want something to change, and by knowing the desired effect the engineers can then come up with something or try an existing idea. No driver is responsible for all the improvements on a car. Likewise, no engineer is, either.

they started design on the MP4 22 while Fernando was still only a one time champion and fighting Micheal Schumacher for his second
engineers play a larger role than driver in terms of outright pace. Driver can give good feed back for setups yeah but major technical advances NO. an engineer doesnt need a driver to say they want more grip more speed and more torque, they already know that. and if your cars not the fastest then ofcourse the engineer knows he has work to do he doesnt need a driver to tell em they need to make improvements.

I think you're seriously underestimating a driver's input, but remember that I did not say that a driver played more of a role in terms of outright pace, just that neither party is solely responsible for the development of a car.

[nikon133]

yeah but McLaren didnt rely on the Michelin partnership as much as Renault and they suffered on the Bridgestones in 07, Renault even admitted that.

no doubt Alonso can give good feed back to his engineers but to suggest he is the reason for McLarens form last year and Renaults pace in Spain is an insult to the hard working engineers of both teams. Unless youre saying Alonso instigated in his feed back to try the engine cover by Redbull or he asked for the wheel rim covers and so on.

I am suggesting that he is more capable of providing useful, intelligent feedback to the hard working engineers so that they have more useful info to hard-work with. And since races are not won only on the racetrack, that is making him better value than any great talented but not experienced driver.

And I am also suggesting that FA might have helped McLaren to adjust to Bridgestones faster than LH would. I know that Renault had some extra love for Michelin, but still, McLaren did develop their car on Michelin for years as well and was pretty close to Michelin as well.