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[sagi58]

Let's not forget those that quietly threaten to leave the sport if they don't get what suits their R & D,
knowing full well they would have a huge advantage over the other manufacturers because of it.

, Andrew Benson wrote:">Mercedes could have quit over engines
Mercedes says it would probably have quit Formula 1 if the sport had not adopted its new turbo hybrid engines.

Professor Dr Thomas Weber, the Daimler board member responsible for research and development, said the engines provided the justification to continue.

"The key challenge for the future is fuel economy and efficiency and, with the change in regulations, F1 is the spearhead for development," Weber said...

[CookinFlat6]

Ok I will try and explain Sagi, forgive me if I resort to outlandish allegories, it is hard to get through a thick slab of concrete without using a sledgehammer

Let's not forget those that quietly threaten to leave the sport if they don't get what suits their R & D,
knowing full well they would have a huge advantage over the other manufacturers because of it.

Mercedes says it would probably have quit Formula 1 if the sport had not adopted its new turbo hybrid engines.

.

Ok Sagi how does Merc saying in retrospect that they ""PROBABLY"" (a restrospective conditional term) would have quit - They didnt quit and mentioned this years after

how does that equate to your claim that 'they threaten to leave if they dont blah blah blah'

Do you not realise that the average F1 fan understands and enjoys attention to detail and factual information? You cant just make things up and then start crying when member after member points out that you tend to arrive with a preset mission to deride or denigrate someone or something and then half arsedly throw in random and completely wrong reasons to try and ""retrospectively"" justify it, and then claim that you are new to F1 and are having a 'mea culpa' and cannot be expected to know as much as the average F1 follower

[sagi58]

Ok I will try and explain Sagi, forgive me if I resort to outlandish allegories, it is hard to get through a thick slab of concrete without using a sledgehammer

You'll have to forgive me; but, I stopped reading after this.
If you insist on being condescending when responding to me,
do us both a favour and don't bother.

Thanks in advance!

[CookinFlat6]

Dont worry, I cant receive any replies anyway because I am in a different time zone

[sagi58]

Try adjusting the bunny ears, maybe your reception will improve!

[spankyham]

Let's not forget those that quietly threaten to leave the sport if they don't get what suits their R & D,
knowing full well they would have a huge advantage over the other manufacturers because of it.

, Andrew Benson wrote:">Mercedes could have quit over engines
Mercedes says it would probably have quit Formula 1 if the sport had not adopted its new turbo hybrid engines.

Professor Dr Thomas Weber, the Daimler board member responsible for research and development, said the engines provided the justification to continue.

"The key challenge for the future is fuel economy and efficiency and, with the change in regulations, F1 is the spearhead for development," Weber said...

Good pick-up sagi, I recall that quote after the event - as I recall Mercedes, through Norbert Haug, stating similar long beforehand. He made it clear that Mercedes did not agree with the turbo as proposed (4 cylinder no hybrid) and it couldn't go ahead without their agreement. For the record, at that time, Ferrari had publicly spoken (through their CEO Amedeo Felisa at the Beijing auto show) that they fully supported the 4 cylinder turbo with GDI. Those are the facts.

[CookinFlat6]

I recall that quote after the event

- as I recall Mercedes, through Norbert Haug, stating similar long beforehand.

He made it clear that Mercedes did not agree with the turbo as proposed (4 cylinder no hybrid) and it couldn't go ahead without their agreement.

I take it you can furnish us with a link to some evidence or quote about this?

As someone once said regarding ferraris ""veto"" - unless we see some document or a quote or anytype of evidence at all beyond 'I recall hearing from my sources in the ferrai lounge' or the old classic - 'its not that I dont have any links or evidence, its just that I am ignoring you because you didnt ask nicely'

[What's Burning?]

I recall Mercedes, through Norbert Haug, stating similar long beforehand. He made it clear that Mercedes did not agree with the turbo as proposed (4 cylinder no hybrid) and it couldn't go ahead without their agreement. For the record, at that time, Ferrari had publicly spoken (through their CEO Amedeo Felisa at the Beijing auto show) that they fully supported the 4 cylinder turbo with GDI. Those are the facts.

So it's your opinion that Ferrari would have made a fantastic engine and been where Mercedes are today were it not for the hybrid aspect and two additional cylinders? Interesting indeed where all the evidence and sackings we've seen from the Scuderia to date point to them making the same mistakes like their very own version of groundhog's day.

[Hammer278]

Let's not forget those that quietly threaten to leave the sport if they don't get what suits their R & D,
knowing full well they would have a huge advantage over the other manufacturers because of it.

, Andrew Benson wrote:">Mercedes could have quit over engines
Mercedes says it would probably have quit Formula 1 if the sport had not adopted its new turbo hybrid engines.

Professor Dr Thomas Weber, the Daimler board member responsible for research and development, said the engines provided the justification to continue.

"The key challenge for the future is fuel economy and efficiency and, with the change in regulations, F1 is the spearhead for development," Weber said...

Good pick-up sagi, I recall that quote after the event - as I recall Mercedes, through Norbert Haug, stating similar long beforehand. He made it clear that Mercedes did not agree with the turbo as proposed (4 cylinder no hybrid) and it couldn't go ahead without their agreement. For the record, at that time, Ferrari had publicly spoken (through their CEO Amedeo Felisa at the Beijing auto show) that they fully supported the 4 cylinder turbo with GDI. Those are the facts.

Got a link for this part? I'd like to see Haug's full interview, because nitpicking from articles and stating them in your own words...it's very much like Chinese Whispers if you get my drift.

[spankyham]

So it's your opinion that Ferrari would have made a fantastic engine and been where Mercedes are today were it not for the hybrid aspect and two additional cylinders?

No. I don't know what sort of engine Ferrari would have produced had the FiA stuck to the 4 cylinder direct injected turbo power unit.
I have previously unconditionally commended Mercedes on producing the best hybrid 6 pot turbo at the first race this year and I stick to that.
I just can't wait for the first race next year, and of course I'm hoping we can catch up enough to be competitive for the season.

[Hammer278]

So you're ignoring my query even when I asked you nicely?... Is it because its more lies or you want to keep Haug's interview private?

[CookinFlat6]

I am sure in a few months time when things should have been forgotten, WB will tell us that the an answer was given to him in private - an answer that didnt actuall proof anything or provide confirmation or quotes - but nevertheless was made

[spankyham]

So you're ignoring my query even when I asked you nicely?... Is it because its more lies or you want to keep Haug's interview private?

You most definitely did ask fairly, and no I'm not ignoring you. I'm traveling at the mo and only have my phone and I don't have enough patience. I will post it later, but honestly, it's easy to Google and everyone knows Mercedes wanted changes.

[Hammer278]

So you're ignoring my query even when I asked you nicely?... Is it because its more lies or you want to keep Haug's interview private?

You most definitely did ask fairly, and no I'm not ignoring you. I'm traveling at the mo and only have my phone and I don't have enough patience. I will post it later, but honestly, it's easy to Google and everyone knows Mercedes wanted changes.

Dude I'm asking because I can't find that particular quote. Maybe I just suck at finding stuff on google. Appreciate if you could paste it here when you find time. Because that would be something I have not seen before and I'd like to see the context in which it was said. Thx!

[CookinFlat6]

I assumed it was a secret source from the Ferrari lounge because I tried google no joy

Merc DEMAND new engine?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=google&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#hl=en&q=mercedes+demanded+new+f1+engine

Merc threatened to leave?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=google&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#hl=en&q=mercedes+threatened+to+leave+f1
Nothing about the hybrid here just about bribery of Ferrari

According to a report in the Daily Telegraph, Mercedes is extremely unhappy with terms being offered by Bernie Ecclestone and could leave F1 – or possibly take Bernie to court.
The root of the argument is the belief that Bernie is offering big incentives to the three top teams – Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren to stay in the sport, and these incentives are being denied to others.

Haug 2014 engine demand?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=google&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#hl=en&q=haug+mercedes+f1+2014+demand

Nada, zilch, zero, nothing, bs, hot air, blatant lies, pathetic butthurtery

edit; I found those links while travelling in pouring rain and whilst operating a PDK gearbox (auto mode useless in rain) at the same time as using my iphone

now I can add some more

Renault - one of F1's two other car manufacturers - threatened to quit if the sport did not adopt the new engines, because the old V8s were no longer relevant to road-car development.
Now Mercedes has revealed it would also probably have stopped if F1 had not decided to commit to the efficiency formula in 2009, around the time BMW and Toyota left the sport.
"I think so, yeah," Weber told BBC Sport. "Because we had the discussion."
"We had at different times the challenge to discuss F1 with the [Daimler] supervisory board," he added.
"We had hard discussions. And it was always - and even more so when it came to the later years - harder to explain why we were using naturally aspirated engines.

So Renault threatened to quit, BMW and Toyota quit and Merc AMG found it hard going to justify staying to the Daimler board - no threats to quit anywhere

Every team was involved with the changes from 2009

Talks are ongoing between the teams and the FIA about what kind of engines the sport will adopt, but it seems likely that it will be low capacity turbocharged engines. The sport can embrace the opportunity of a new engine formula in 2013 to produce a new generation of far more fuel efficient engines, which will benefit the motor industry and society in general.

from 2009 about the 2014 reg change

Big day tomorrow – December 4th, the meeting in Geneva of the 10 F1 team principals to finalise their proposals to the FIA World Council, which will sit on December 12th to decide on some major changes to Formula 1 for the future.
I know what you are thinking, it’s all a bit of a blur this; we haven’t had a chance to fully absorb the massive changes for 2009 yet and already we are potentially about to get a load of even more radical changes pushed onto us

This shows how all the teams were aware of the proposed engine changes, even the fans had a say - yet we hear from those ignorant about F1 that Ferrari were conned into it
[youtube]0Z9cK-N2y9E[/youtube]

and for those moaning that ferrari were conned or didnt have time to prepare, they had time to prepare innovative solutions and gloat about them

Ferrari looks to have come up with another of the big Formula 1 innovations of the 2014 season.

It emerged last week that the new Ferrari F14T features an unique cooling system that allows their new challenger to have very small sidepods, notwithstanding the extreme cooling demands of the all-new ‘Power Unit’ rules.

Now, La Gazzetta dello Sport reports that Ferrari’s new V6 turbo engine is also highly innovative.

The report said the engine features a ‘cut-off’ system that works with the direct injection to keep engine temperatures low and save crucial fuel.

The system means that, at times, the flow of fuel into the combustion chamber is stopped altogether and the engine is not sparked.