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#410533
I agree...that overtake was sick. He made another one last year (on Webber), from same track which also ranks high with me.

Those team orders reek of bad business....especially after making your whole 2014 campaign about "letting our drivers race". #stunned


I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation from Merc, don't want to believe what that smelt of.
#410538
I agree...that overtake was sick. He made another one last year (on Webber), from same track which also ranks high with me.

Those team orders reek of bad business....especially after making your whole 2014 campaign about "letting our drivers race". #stunned


I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation from Merc, don't want to believe what that smelt of.


I'd guess their simulations showed it would give the biggest points gain for the constructors which is what merc have already stated they're interested in wrapping up before letting the two of them loose. And no one in between the computer and the radio considered the full situation.
#410541
I agree...that overtake was sick. He made another one last year (on Webber), from same track which also ranks high with me.

Those team orders reek of bad business....especially after making your whole 2014 campaign about "letting our drivers race". #stunned


I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation from Merc, don't want to believe what that smelt of.


Yeah can't imagine there is one. Moving forward though, i't's hard not to think that LH will continue to get the short end of the stick.
#410542
I agree...that overtake was sick. He made another one last year (on Webber), from same track which also ranks high with me.

Those team orders reek of bad business....especially after making your whole 2014 campaign about "letting our drivers race". #stunned


I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation from Merc, don't want to believe what that smelt of.


I'd guess their simulations showed it would give the biggest points gain for the constructors which is what merc have already stated they're interested in wrapping up before letting the two of them loose. And no one in between the computer and the radio considered the full situation.



exactly. Giving both drivers a chance for the win would have increased the constructors points lead even more.
#410553
What an absolutely EPIC Grand Prix! Definitely one of the all time classics (we seem to be having a few of those this season)!

Shame about McLaren, their call on intermediate tyres was either going to land them a brilliant or an awful result, and it ended up being the latter. After witnessing their pace this weekend, it could've been a lot more.

Williams seemed to go off the boil, and Ferrari have taken advantage in the WCC.

DRS, once again, proved its worth. It didn't make overtakes easy, it just allowed them to take place. 10 out of 10.
#410554
I agree...that overtake was sick. He made another one last year (on Webber), from same track which also ranks high with me.

Those team orders reek of bad business....especially after making your whole 2014 campaign about "letting our drivers race". #stunned


I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation from Merc, don't want to believe what that smelt of.


I'd guess their simulations showed it would give the biggest points gain for the constructors which is what merc have already stated they're interested in wrapping up before letting the two of them loose. And no one in between the computer and the radio considered the full situation.



exactly. Giving both drivers a chance for the win would have increased the constructors points lead even more.


And they need to go conservative to preserve team points? Have you seen their lead recently? Only competition is between the two drivers, and Merc have said they let them race, so Merc, play fair, let them race!! I hope this is just a confusion and lack of perspective and nothing more.
#410557
I agree...that overtake was sick. He made another one last year (on Webber), from same track which also ranks high with me.

Those team orders reek of bad business....especially after making your whole 2014 campaign about "letting our drivers race". #stunned


I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation from Merc, don't want to believe what that smelt of.


I'd guess their simulations showed it would give the biggest points gain for the constructors which is what merc have already stated they're interested in wrapping up before letting the two of them loose. And no one in between the computer and the radio considered the full situation.



exactly. Giving both drivers a chance for the win would have increased the constructors points lead even more.


And they need to go conservative to preserve team points? Have you seen their lead recently? Only competition is between the two drivers, and Merc have said they let them race, so Merc, play fair, let them race!! I hope this is just a confusion and lack of perspective and nothing more.

Yeah, I don't think there was anything untoward about it, just blindly following the premise of scoring constructor points without taking the competition between the drivers into account, something I think they will look at more closely in the future.
#410558
What I'm about to say, I say from a mercedes standpoint and not from a standpoint of favoring one driver over another. Mercedes lost two chances for a win today when they didn't make hamilton move over for rosberg. As has been pointed out, hamilton would have gotten 4th had they done that, but at the time of the call, they were looking at rosberg gaining 3-4 seconds a lap like he did at the end for the chance of a win and also the possibility of hamilton's tires holding out for the win, so when they made that call, they were looking at TWO scenarios in which a win was at least feasible. I think hamilton made the right choice for himself by not just pulling over, and I don't hold that against him. I would have said the same thing, "yo, tell rosberg to get on my gearbox and then I'll let him through, but not a moment before." The ball was dropped when mercedes didn't emphatically tell him to GET THE $#@! OVER because from their pitwall they were looking at the possibility of TWO winning scenarios, two different strategies as I mentioned above. So all in all, whatever hamilton gained by finishing ahead of rosberg, mercedes lost in the end because they don't care who wins, as long as one of them does and preferably as a one-two. Again, I'd have done the same thing as hamilton, and that's coming from an obvious rosberg fan. But I think the team may come under criticism that is reminiscent of red bull last year in malaysia when they told both drivers to turn their engines down and one was like NOPE! It's a little different cuz they got the 1-2 but I expect mercedes may take some heat over this. Or not, because so many people think hamilton shits gold :thumbup:


I think the best possible finish for Rosberg was 2nd, Ricciardo was just too far ahead at that point and even with Hamilton holding Ricciardo up for a few laps i don't think Rosberg would have managed to catch him by the end of the race especially because it would have required Rosberg to overtake Alonso aswell to get any chance.

Best possible Result for Mercedes would have been to pit Hamilton instead of asking him to move over, they must have known the car would be strong at the end or they never would have asked Hamilton to move over knowing full well that it was asking Hamilton to give up on overtaking Alonso, so why not give both Mercs the chance to fight instead of telling Hamilton to give up and give Rosberg the chance? if 2nd was possible for Rosberg it was also possible for Hamilton so pitting him could have given Mercedes a 2-3 finish instead of the 3-4 they got.

They obviously had no confidence of Hamilton overtaking Alonso because asking Hamilton to move over at that point was asking Hamilton to settle for 4th place, makes no sense to me and seems like one of the worst calls Mercedes have made so far.

I don't think Rosberg is to blame, s*** happens and we only ever hear the radio messages that cause the most drama and news headlines so who knows what happened, but this was 100% down to Mercedes making an extremely bad call in my opinion which cost them atleast a 2nd podium spot.
#410561
I agree...that overtake was sick. He made another one last year (on Webber), from same track which also ranks high with me.

Those team orders reek of bad business....especially after making your whole 2014 campaign about "letting our drivers race". #stunned


I'd love to hear a reasonable explanation from Merc, don't want to believe what that smelt of.


I'd guess their simulations showed it would give the biggest points gain for the constructors which is what merc have already stated they're interested in wrapping up before letting the two of them loose. And no one in between the computer and the radio considered the full situation.


But again if they believed Rosberg could catch back up and get 1st/2nd even though he still had to pit one more time before the end why would relegating Hamilton to 4th be better than potentially getting both cars onto the podium?

exactly. Giving both drivers a chance for the win would have increased the constructors points lead even more.


Telling Hamilton to move over doesn't give him a chance to win, it forces Hamilton to settle for 4th, how would Hamilton have won if he had dropped back away from Alonso to let Rosberg through? not to mention Rosberg would have then been between Hamilton and Alonso.

It was giving Rosberg the chance for the win and taking any chance away from Hamilton.
#410563
Exactly, and that's worrying.
#410566
I'm gonna reach here and say this is one, if not the only scenario where the WDC 'weighs' more than the WCC? Telling two competing drivers to slow down and let one pass? does more damage to the team than the drivers I think. *shrugs*
#410568
I'm gonna reach here and say this is one, if not the only scenario where the WDC 'weighs' more than the WCC? Telling two competing drivers to slow down and let one pass? does more damage to the team than the drivers I think. *shrugs*

I don't understand what you're saying, looks like you're contradicting yourself, maybe I'm reading it wrong.
#410585
I'm gonna reach here and say this is one, if not the only scenario where the WDC 'weighs' more than the WCC? Telling two competing drivers to slow down and let one pass? does more damage to the team than the drivers I think. *shrugs*

I don't understand what you're saying, looks like you're contradicting yourself, maybe I'm reading it wrong.



The constructors is considered more important than the WDC....at least from the team's perspective at all times. Team strategy usually involves getting both cars home and maximizing points at all times. I'm just not aware of a scenario where both drivers are fighting for the championship, as in top 1 and 2, and team orders come into play to compromise one driver's strategy and maximize the other's. Hamilton refusing to budge effectively suggests, and rightfully so, that the WDC is more important here. His boss will agree with him
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