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[spankyham]

There was some discussion over in the Mercedes support thread comparing various era's of domination. There was Ferrari - growing in strength through the late 90's to our domination from 2000 to the mid 2000's. Then we had the 4 years of Red Bull. And now we have Mercedes untouchable for all of 2014.

In terms of effect on viewership - from the mid 90's to I think 2003 Viewership grew from 40 to near the mid 50 billion viewers. Since then we've seen the introduction of lots of creative restrictions and some, what I will call gimmicks to increase passing. Additionally we have seen a drive to make F1 suit the financial models of the major production car manufacturers.

Do you like the direction F1 is heading? Is the viewership a non-issue? Are there differences in the era's of domination?

I hope DD isn't too disappointed in the type of domination that is the topic here

[sagi58]

There was some discussion over in the Mercedes support thread comparing various era's of domination. There was Ferrari - growing in strength through the late 90's to our domination from 2000 to the mid 2000's. Then we had the 4 years of Red Bull. And now we have Mercedes untouchable for all of 2014...

That was the point I tried to make; but, it would seem I wasn't clear or possibly explicit enough.

The "difference" between the previous eras and this year, is exactly that: the lack of competition
due to the illegality of continued development on the P/U. Continued work on reliability really does
not improve the engine itself when it comes to more power/speed. I do realize that you need to
cross the finish line to earn points and you can't do that if your car isn't reliable, so it is an important
aspect of the car; however, it's not like there are points being handed out if you don't finish in the top
ten... there aren't any podiums being granted if you don't finish in the top three... and, there aren't
any titles being gifted to anyone who doesn't continuously and consistently finish first/second!

[sagi58]

...In terms of effect on viewership - from the mid 90's to I think 2003 Viewership grew from 40 to near the mid 50 billion viewers...

In spite of all the Schumi/Ferrari ""haters"" (goodness that's a dumb word) spewing how boring these years were, if viewership increased to 50 billion viewers, F1 was obviously doing something right.

Did millions watch because they wanted the Scuderia and Schumi to be successful? Or did more watch because they wanted to see the team/driver fail? No way to know.

What I do know is that it's fascinating to read the viewpoint that this year there is more competition, because Mercedes is allowing their drivers to race. They don't "need" to fall back on a 1-2 driver philosphy, since it would appear they are the only team who successfully built a GP winner. It's fairly obvious they have the WCC pretty well "sewn up", so they can afford the luxury of standing back and watching their drivers, since there is no legal way any team can catch up.

It's fascinating to read how easily dismissed Schumi/Ferrari's "domination" is when, in fact, ALL the teams had the possibility of continuing to develop their cars, during the season. Is it any wonder that Ferrari chose to stick to their 1-2 philosophy at the time?

[spankyham]

I was interested to read in a few posts replying to sagi elsewhere, people talking about the engine rules from 06 to 13 and calling it a "freeze". I'm sure most of them aren't even kidding themselves with that line. In practice and in theory teams were always allowed to improve their engine performance during those years. In fact, during those years the FiA stated they intended to allow teams behind to improve performance to equalize the engines. Mercedes made performance improvements all through 06 and 07.
It is indisputable that this year is the first time in f1 history that teams a forbidden to do anything to catch up on engine performance.

[sagi58]

...It is indisputable that this year is the first time in f1 history that teams a forbidden to do anything to catch up on engine performance.

So, where the FIA did all they could stop the Ferrari domination, over the years,
this year, with all their new rules in place, they've created their own "domination"!

I guess it's a case of "Be careful what you wish for!"!

[spankyham]

...It is indisputable that this year is the first time in f1 history that teams a forbidden to do anything to catch up on engine performance.

So, where the FIA did all they could stop the Ferrari domination, over the years,
this year, with all their new rules in place, they've created their own "domination"!

I guess it's a case of "Be careful what you wish for!"!

Personally I don't believe the FiA made rules to end Ferrari's domination, just like I don't believe they unfairly favored Ferrari which sporned the slogans like Ferrari international Assistance and FIAt. Both these views are from the extreme ends of the bias people ranges. No point trying to engage these sorts of people in any discussion as they can't listen and are incapable of change.

Like the double points fiasco this year's engine rule is just a bad rule. The thing is, fans who benefit from bad rules aren't readily able to see it. Perhaps they want to win so much, they are unwilling to see how obviously wrong some rules are. They will of course be more open to change and dislike rules that could potentially hurt their team or driver - double points are clear example.

[sagi58]

Personally I don't believe the FiA made rules to end Ferrari's domination, just like I don't believe they unfairly favored Ferrari which sporned the slogans like Ferrari international Assistance and FIAt. Both these views are from the extreme ends of the bias people ranges...

When an untruth is repeated often enough, there are those who will believe.

Unfortunately for me, I wasn't following F1 at the time; but, volumes have been written
and shared by so many sources that it is difficult to believe that's not what happened!!
I have tried, diligently, to find sources that were not biased; but, there exists no such
entity, if you want to find a true fan of the sport!

[spankyham]

Personally I don't believe the FiA made rules to end Ferrari's domination, just like I don't believe they unfairly favored Ferrari which sporned the slogans like Ferrari international Assistance and FIAt. Both these views are from the extreme ends of the bias people ranges...

When an untruth is repeated often enough, there are those who will believe.

Unfortunately for me, I wasn't following F1 at the time; but, volumes have been written
and shared by so many sources that it is difficult to believe that's not what happened!!
I have tried, diligently, to find sources that were not biased; but, there exists no such
entity, if you want to find a true fan of the sport!

It ridiculous to think that you can only comment on what you've seen in f1. I greatly admire both Ascari's yet they were both dead before I was on the planet. Listen, read, learn, respect and change is how we develop knowledge.

You have learned a lot sagi, I know that. A lot by asking and I know you read and modify your thoughts as you learn.

[spankyham]

Back to domination, if 2003 were under this year's rules McLaren would have walked away with the titles. But fortunately for the f1 fans Ferrari built a whole new engine by the 4th race and were able to catch up and eventually get past Macca. It was an exciting season.

Credit to McLaren for how they started that season and credit to Ferrari being able to fight back.

[sagi58]

You have learned a lot sagi, I know that. A lot by asking and I know you read and modify your thoughts as you learn.

((Thank you!! ))

[Ferrari man 009]

2006 was one of the best seasons in recent years. Renault built a great car and dominated early on, but Ferrari developed their car brilliantly and dominated the 2nd half of the season leading to a grandstand finish. Imagine if this years restrictions were in place - Renault and Alonso would have had the title wrapped up by Germany that year.

Just imagine if Renault could develop performance in their engine, we know the RB aero is very good - we could have had a titantic battle for the title with RBR catching up but sadly not.

[sagi58]

Great examples, Ferrari man!!

[darwin dali]

Spanky, ham, domination - potentially great ingredients for a thread; and then this?
As you were

[spankyham]

As you were

OK

[spankyham]

There's a discussion (there's a generous description) going on about the "luck" factor in the Mercedes camp. For me it's clear that Lewis has been on the losing end so far. But not enough IMO to effect who will win the WDC this year.

I find it a little ironic that the thing that is most hurting Lewis is that as soon as he has some bad luck it equates to 25 points to the Nico simply because no other team is allowed to improve their car's PU until next year.

Fman, I like your comparison, to 2006 it adds to the 2003 example I gave a little earlier.