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[sagi58]

...what you're not telling me is, as a fan you agree or disagree with the policy.

I don't think our driver line-up is what is preventing us from winning and being competitive right now.

I agree with spanky, as does Mattiacci! Until we have a competitive car, we can't lay blame at the feet of the drivers.

Having said that, I think that any young driver should have a few years under their belt before getting a seat on one of the bigger teams, to develop confidence and maturity, to gain knowledge of the various tracks, and to understand the inside workings of an F1 team.

Call it an apprenticeship of sorts, if you will.

[CookinFlat6]

...what you're not telling me is, as a fan you agree or disagree with the policy.

I don't think our driver line-up is what is preventing us from winning and being competitive right now.

I agree with spanky, as does Mattiacci! Until we have a competitive car, we can't lay blame at the feet of the drivers.

Having said that, I think that any young driver should have a few years under their belt before getting a seat on one of the bigger teams, to develop confidence and maturity, to gain knowledge of the various tracks, and to understand the inside workings of an F1 team.

Call it an apprenticeship of sorts, if you will.

But Sagi, that is what Ferrari provide for young drivers already through its academy, the question was why the youngsters (such as Perez and Bianchi)still dont end up in the no 2 seat even after the few years. The obvious answer - that the team prefer to hire an established driver like Kimi instead - is obviously a very expensive ""MISTAKE""
We were hoping a ferrari fan would be able to shed light on the benefits of this policy

[spankyham]

...what you're not telling me is, as a fan you agree or disagree with the policy.

I don't think our driver line-up is what is preventing us from winning and being competitive right now.

I agree with spanky, as does Mattiacci! Until we have a competitive car, we can't lay blame at the feet of the drivers.

Having said that, I think that any young driver should have a few years under their belt before getting a seat on one of the bigger teams, to develop confidence and maturity, to gain knowledge of the various tracks, and to understand the inside workings of an F1 team.

Call it an apprenticeship of sorts, if you will.

Really good post sagi!

I'd like to see Jules drive for a higher rank team next year, and in 16 when Kimi's contract ends would be ideal running for him to join SF.

[What's Burning?]

There's no right or wrong answer, each team can choose their own path and they obviously do. IMO though, having someone like Kimi now is preventing someone like Jules developing in the team, learning about the team and maturing as a driver. I'd have to think that a year at Ferrari is worth a couple elsewhere. So if you're developing a young driver why not have the team committed to them, oust Kimi or not have hired him in the first place since (no disrespect to him) he's not bringing anything to the table, and put your money and your confidence in that young driver? As eloquently and positively stated the Mattiacci's comments on what Kimi needs to do, they are still not disguised as anything else but are a clarion for him to up his game.

Nothing will boost confidence and increase the learning curve faster than rising to the occasion at a top team. Daniel Ricciardo is proof of that.

[CookinFlat6]

Really good post sagi!

I'd like to see Jules drive for a higher rank team next year, and in 16 when Kimi's contract ends would be ideal running for him to join SF.

Any team on a ""higher"" rank than the one jules is at now would be a direct competitor to ferrari, on the same level or possibly higher, so why would ferrari send him to a team that could beat them

my knowledge is obviously not on the same level as a tifosi but i am curious to know what team could fit this bill to send Jules to after 3 years at marrusia

Ferrari
Force India
McLaren
Toro Rosso
Lotus
Marussia

this is the current position, would it be lotus - na, they are a Ferrari competitor having beat them recently, would it be STR? obviously not as they are RBRs academy, would it be Mclaren? , would it be Force India? dunno, they did take Perez from Mclaren, and perez was a ferrari academy driver, nah perez ended up at FI because ferrari dont promote their academy drivers, so who is left that is not Ferrari

I just dont have enough knowledge for this, we need a tifosi to help us out here

[sagi58]

To paraphrase:

Subject: Mercedes Support
...this is a SUPPORT thread. Like hinted previously... if you hate edit: [Ferrari] so much, air your edit: [hatred] somewhere else. Leave this thread for the edit: [support / constructive criticism]... let's play fair shall we edit: [?]

[CookinFlat6]

Ok sagi, point taken, lets not respond to questions or debates on the ferrari support thread unless we are prepared to avoid current facts and only find nice things to say

lets maybe do this on other support thread as well

maybe to be safe this thread could be locked and access granted only to tifosi who could say nice things in peace? just a thought

[sagi58]

There's no right or wrong answer, each team can choose their own path and they obviously do. IMO though, having someone like Kimi now is preventing someone like Jules developing in the team, learning about the team and maturing as a driver...

Valid points, for this season; however, do you think your opinion might be
different if Ferrari had a winning car? Would you change your mind if the
highly anticipated Alonso vs Kimi "battle" were realized this season and they
were in the same points situation that Mercedes' drivers are?

The F14T is not a winning car, it's obvious. It's just as obvious that without
a successful car, the drivers can't be "blamed" for not succeeding.

...I'd have to think that a year at Ferrari is worth a couple elsewhere. So if you're developing a young driver why not have the team committed to them...

...Nothing will boost confidence and increase the learning curve faster than rising to the occasion at a top team. Daniel Ricciardo is proof of that.

Agreed! Having said that, taking into consideration the last few unsuccessful
years, does Ferrari really have the luxury of taking a risk, this season? Or even
next season? Maybe you're right! Maybe they do need to take a serious look at
the possibility of hiring a "young'un"!!

What I do know, is that I am not envious of the job that Mattiacci has ahead!!

Edited for a spelling error...

[racechick]

Had they taken on, say Jules, and the car was as is, I can't see him doing a worse job than Kimi, he's now an experienced driver doing a good job in the team he's in. Kimi is getting on for an F1 driver and has limited years left. Jules is young hungry and could be moulded under Alonso to be a star of the next decade. Forward thinking.

But Ferrari didn't know how things would pan out this year, they didn't know Mercedes would run away with it and they didn't know their own car would be off the pace as much as it is.
So let's tale a look at a couple of other scenarios.

Mercedes still a runaway leader but Ferrari next in the pecking order. They cant catch Mercedes, but by taking on Jules there would be a natural one/ two situation by outcome not by design( one would hope) so there could be an outside chance that Alonso could get in there whilst the Merc boys take points off each other. And who knows Jules could be up to speed immediately and scoring good points as well.

Third scenario. The Ferrari is as fast as the Merc. Whilst the Merc boys take each other's points Alonso wins. Ok in this scenario there is a risk to the constructors title but the coveted drivers is more attainable. And as it has actually turned out Kimi isn't doing much towards the constructors anyway.

I think in retrospect, Ferrari made an error by not taking Jules, this year is written off and Jules could have been settling in for the future. Retrospect is easy to see things. But even with the other possible scenarios I still think Ferrari should have been brave and put Jules in.
Credit to McLaren on this front. They put rookies in and it pays off.

[Roth]

Kimi's signing is only a disaster in retrospect. Let's not pretend we saw this struggle coming. Bianch was a Ferrari test driver, and has the Marussia experience, similar to Massa as a Ferrari TD and a Sauber driver. Didn't Massa actually take the TD role to further his career? For a decade previously Ferrari had only been concerned with MS, so there's no modern precedent prior to Massa. As much as anything Massa showed MS was past his peak in 2006, and in '08 Massa was either blistering or average. You would describe him as spotty at best. KR had shown himself across three teams in over a decade to be a proven, if slightly shiftless, winner. So you go for the Massa prototype, which ended up a failure, or the guy who won you the crown in '07. For Ferrari money is not an issue so you go on track record, surely. Plus, you're Ferrari, you open the door and nobody refuses.

And depending on what you class as rookie, McLaren have had success with rookies but only when they have had the car to prove it. Mika was a rookie but it took four or five yrs to give him a car worthy of his talent, when he was no longer a rookie. KR was in his second F1 season when he joined and accounted for himself more than admirably. Similar to the Hamilton shemozzle of '12 it was often reliability that let him down. And Hamilton, and that's not something I need to fill in any gaps on for you. Mag has come in at either the perfect time, prior to Honda with no great expectation in a stuttering car, or hooked his trailer to a team in permanent decline, depending on if Ron can work his magic. They aren't quite in the position of Ferrari though because they don't quite have the marquee to pull a top driver regardless.

[Ferrari man 009]

I agree with Racechick on this one - Ferrari in hindsight missed a trick with Bianchi.

On Kimi, i'm not actually sure he is a great driver. In 2007 he benefitted from Massa having more DNF'S and also the Hamilton/Alonso war, which effectively gifted Kimi the title. 2008 and 2009 (until Hungary) Massa thrashed him. 2012 he did well for Lotus and the first half of 2013, but by the end of 2013 Grosjean was starting to beat him.

I think Kimi is a good, arguably very good driver (you have to be to be World Champion) but is he a great driver like Alonso and Hamilton? No.

This season I think is showing that, would Massa have done a worse job than Kimi this year? I'm not actually sure he would have. If Kimi wants out for 15 let him and promote Bianchi (anyone who gets points in a Marussia has potential)

[Roth]

Really, they should have gone for the Hulk.

[CookinFlat6]

I agree with Racechick on this one - Ferrari in hindsight missed a trick with Bianchi.

On Kimi, i'm not actually sure he is a great driver. In 2007 he benefitted from Massa having more DNF'S and also the Hamilton/Alonso war, which effectively gifted Kimi the title. 2008 and 2009 (until Hungary) Massa thrashed him. 2012 he did well for Lotus and the first half of 2013, but by the end of 2013 Grosjean was starting to beat him.

I think Kimi is a good, arguably very good driver (you have to be to be World Champion) but is he a great driver like Alonso and Hamilton? No.

This season I think is showing that, would Massa have done a worse job than Kimi this year? I'm not actually sure he would have. If Kimi wants out for 15 let him and promote Bianchi (anyone who gets points in a Marussia has potential)

well said ferrariman, a knowledgeable ferrari fan able to understand and answer the question posed

I think most of us now agree that ferrari missed a trick with Bianchi, hopefully the new TP is watching this and has no knowledgeable ideas like placing Jules in another team

[LiamCatterson]

So sagi, I guess Ferrari will be 1-2

[racechick]

Bianchi out qualifies Kimi. We were saying...........