- 21 Jul 14, 23:50#409264
Roth, you're welcomed to join our pool game, sounds like you'd do very well. I'm currently leading. 

"I don't want to be part of a forum where everyone has differing opinions." Boom...
Discuss the sport you love with other motorsport fans
Roth you are missing the point here, yes you have an opinion, however why rely on circumstantial evidence and push it when there are lots of facts available that dont really agree.
Opinion - you say he was sloppy,
Facts - he performed a tricky operation at least 17 times + 1 time he didnt complete it + sloppy implies a behaviour, an attitude + he had a reasonable excuse + in F1 racing to be sloppy is anti performance, its not good
Conclusion - A completion rate of 94.11% says he wasnt sloppy 17 times, maybe the other times were also sloppy but he got lucky? lucky 94.11% of the moves, or maybe he just got sloppy because it had been a long race and he needed a cuppa, but hold on, he then went on to drive with a damaged car even better than before
Ok so he was confirmed to be sloppy 5.88% of the time, in one iteration in 17. So he let his true hidden nature out just the one time and thats enough?
Nope - just sounds like the guy will always be failing somehow in your books - thats how it sounds, maybe theres some translation issue, you could have meant the guy is basically of a certain impestuos character and you reckon we saw a flash of it. that is more in line with facts and more 'reasonable' sounding
Or he went 20 to 3? But shouldn't it have been second if he hadn't hit Button? Hang on it should have been first because there should have been a safety car which would have brought Hamilton up to Bottas and Nico and, well you fill in the rest. Predicting outcomes isn't fact either but I don't see you refuting any posts like that. Is that because they are victim posts in an alternate universe where Hamilton wins and everyone's happy and not like mine which are Hamilton was a bit ragged but which doesn't follow your script, so don't count. And I said he should finish second on some thread. I don't want the man to fail, take no joy in it, but am willing to bring up reasons why.
:rofl: The speculation about the safety car and not hitting Button is not just wishful thinking, its about very interesting and ultimately successful strategy. I even said exactly the same thing posted before the race - he would make an extra stop on options, this would make any SC a complete bonus and a chance to race Nico, and if not he would finish ahead of Bottas who would have older tyres (no SC no change)
Merc should win the price for best strategy and on the fly changes
Thats why its a part of the story
Roth, you're welcomed to join our pool game, sounds like you'd do very well. I'm currently leading.
He hit Button, that's direct evidence.
You on the other hand were congratulating Merc on a supplying Hamilton with the best strategy possible, but unfortunatley circumstances outside of their control means it didn't fulfill it's potential, which would have been Hamilton challenging for the win. Which is a good point. That's different to assuming Hamilton would have won. That's conjecture.
I think Lewis has cracked a bit mentally. Austria was a bit of a one-off, or so we thought.
This time it seemed he was desperately trying to convince himself and the team that it was not worth a try in the end...and the team told him to let Nico through. Why didn't he just go ahead and do the bloody lap like everyone else did?
Shows to me Lewis is not comfortable with Nico's speed now, especially in qualifying. If he had no fear he would've just done the SOP, go for the last lap since the tyres are going into the bin anyway. It was a strange qual, but your WDC rival is going for the lap, why the f**k would you abort your chance? Not at all wise. This doesn't show a lack of intelligence to me though, more of fear.
The WDC is now harder than ever. And Nico's earned every bit of what he's got except for the sh!t he pulled in Monaco, that's worth a potential 14 points max (reverse 1-2). If he gets the WDC, the Lewis bashers are going to have a field day.....even as a Lewis supporter I was shouting !DIOT when I heard from Crofty that Lewis had let Nico through.
...which side are you on, Hammie, because it's curious behaviour?
Wow this thread has run....apologies Roth, time difference and all that.
Are you seriously asking me that question? You seem an intelligent enough guy, maybe I'm just a big fan who recognizes a guy's immense talent and doesn't hesitate criticizing him when he deserves to be criticized. He did publicly admit to a huge mistake there, and I made that post way before his comments were out. And this is far from my first critic of him, other guys here can attest to that.
I just get annoyed when others (fans or not) criticize him without any actual fact or reasoning to back it up. Way too much nitpicking going on when Lewis is concerned and two faced judgement. Yours look more like nitpicking to me though, which is not nearly as bad as the latter. And the latter type is a very big population indeed....I see them everywhere, on site comments, other boards, and there are a few in this forum too (but not you, as yet).
Maybe the fact that his teammate won another race almost by default while he had to pass 17 cars to get 10 less points.
You on the other hand were congratulating Merc on a supplying Hamilton with the best strategy possible, but unfortunatley circumstances outside of their control means it didn't fulfill it's potential, which would have been Hamilton challenging for the win. Which is a good point. That's different to assuming Hamilton would have won. That's conjecture.
And congratulating Lewis even more because not many could have pulled out the laps consistently that he was after the long first stint, Merc and Lewis executed the strategy perfectly (which would involve passing quick thru the field and no hold ups behind slow cars) and had the best outcome lined up....until he was hit by button....for which he was called sloppy...impatient..over eager....impestuos and for good measure said to have handled ALL the overtaking badly because he ALMOST hit Kimi and got a nudge from Sutil.
So tell us roth, you already agreed that Lewis and Merc had made no mistakes and executed a strategy that most likely could have won given some luck with safety car and no car issue,
if the safety car had been deployed (clearly possible) and no damage and Lewis had beaten Nico, would you still say Lewis was sloppy and it wasnt a great drive?
The world would be hailing it as the best F1 race, better than Buttons, no strategy fluke in Canada 2011
Can you confirm that you would still say Lewis went about it the wrong way, was too sloppy etc because NOTHING changes from Lewis' perspective in that scenario
If you wouldnt critize him (for his sloppyness etc) after the winning scenario then you either like to kick a driver when he has set backs or you just hate Lewis but dont even realise it
For example I like to kick Jenson because he deserves it and because he constantly does things to deserve it, in fact while he is at Mclaren he is doing a bad think by default. But at least each kick is based entirely on the back of an actual new fact and then a bit of conjecture affords a gratuitous kick while he is still on the floor.
Cant just lay down some opinion backed by conjecture despite a bunch of real facts because Lewis feels entitled or his fans are (whatever you decided today). Well you can, but you gotta expect some 'gentle' suggestions
Meanwhile back on earth he hit Button and there wasn't a safety car. And he was third. Not a bad result.
BTW... Button himself admitted he drove into Lewis.
BTW... Button himself admitted he drove into Lewis.
Hmm. I was with you up to this point WB. Button admitted he could see why there was a misunderstanding between himself and Lewis, and how Lewis thought he was letting him by. Slightly different to admitting he drove into Lewis.
But the rest is all 100% spot on.
“He drove into my rear wheel, that’s all I have to say. I guess he thought I was going to let him past but I am out there doing my race and it would be boring if we all just let him through coming through the field.”So I can choose to view it as Button drove into Hamilton since Roth chose to view it as Hamilton drove into Button. There must be balance in the force.
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