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[racechick]

Crickey Moses Ferrariman! But you have a good memory! I can remember Lewis' outstanding moves but except for the really spectacular, often forget which year and which race.

The 2008 bit I remember and some other stuff. Others (like Kimis failures in 01,02 I had a quick peek on wikipedia )

That makes me feel a bit better then

[geetface9]

Not at all. Nico may not be as fast as lewis hamilton, but he's not a whingy $#@! and he doesn't need the mental coddling that lewis does. Nico is also more consistent. I guess that's what I meant to say

But he's not more consistent. It just happens that Lewis has made two errors in the last two qualis. Rosberg made his earlier on.

Whinging? nope not heard him do that, maybe you're confusing him with Alonso and Vettel.

Needs mental coddling? what makes you think he needs that? In fact he's one of the few f1 drivers that refused the aid of a sports psychologist.

Nico has been more consistent this year. Barring DNF's, they would both have been on the podium every race so they are pretty much equal in consistency on sunday in my opinion, but on saturday nico hasn't set a foot wrong the whole time even if he hasn't had pole every time. I don't count monaco as a mistake cuz he still had pole position. Let's not even go into that because you know where I stand on that issue and I know where you stand and we can politely agree to disagree. So, again, to sum it up, race day they're equal as far as being on the podium all the time, but qualifying nico has proved to be more consistent in the fact that he hasn't made giant mistakes that cost him 6 or 9 positions.

Lmao I love how some people are doubting Lewis's skill because they either prefer other drivers or are fans of other drivers/teams.

I hope you're not referring to my last post because in it I already said nico isn't as fast as lewis.

[CookinFlat6]

So you think Nico has been more consistent in quali?

If you were watching F1 at the beginning of the season you will have seen the times he didn't qualify first or second in a car 2 secs quicker than the field

The whole point of a wind up is to find an angle that's actually true geet

[geetface9]

Just because you're denouncing it saying it's not true doesn't mean it isn't. Where's mnmracer we need the math on this

The lowest nico has qualified is 4th. Qualifying in the top four every race in a season is pretty consistent.

The lowest hamilton has qualified is 9th. Qualifying in the top nine every race when you have a top car isn't as good as qualifying in the top four every time. So like you just said, nico has a top car and didn't quali in the top 2 every time. He's qualified at least fourth or better. Hamilton has a top car and didn't qualify even in the top four every time. He has a 6th and 9th place on his sheet this year. How does that not make nico more consistent? I would really like to hear this man. Save the because it IS true.

I'm not saying anything about hamilton's ability to qualify in the top 4 each race like rosberg has. I'm just saying he hasn't.

[Hammer278]

If we do the average qualifying positions for each driver, the guy who has a lower average has done the better Saturdays...no question asked since the cars never broke on Saturdays. In this case it's undoubtedly Nico.

On Sundays, if we do the average finishing positions for both drivers not taking DNFs into account and the driver who has a lower average has done the better Sunday. Which in this case is undoubtedly Lewis.

Nico's been better on Saturdays and Lewis on Sundays. This is reflected in the points standings - 4 points the difference with Lewis finishing 1 race less. Points are handed out on the Sunday which closes up a race weekend, so it's points on the board that matters in the end.

Logically then, we'd say Lewis has been the better driver thus far? No matter how marginal. Or could you refute this somehow...because I don't see how.

[racechick]

You're also saying Rosberg us more consistent and made less errors. He made errors to stop him qualifying close to Lewis in the early races. He made an error in qualifying at Monaco and he made an error leaving the track in Canada. That's quite a lot.
Lewis made an error in Austria quali and made a wrong decision in Silverstone quali. I'd say far more errors to Rosberg, he's just been lucky in that his worst errors benefitted him and hampered Lewis

[CookinFlat6]

Ok geet, Nico is a better qualifier than Lewis and has done better, so why is he only 4 points ahead despite a dnf from first for Lewis

Ah, that must mean Lewis is way better on Sundays, the one time Nico qualified in 4th vs the time Lewis qualified in 9th, who drove better recovery drive to the front?

Good thing for Nico is that they now give a trophy for Saturdays, so he won't mind half the points Lewis gets on Sundays when they both finish

[geetface9]

If we do the average qualifying positions for each driver, the guy who has a lower average has done the better Saturdays...no question asked since the cars never broke on Saturdays. In this case it's undoubtedly Nico.

On Sundays, if we do the average finishing positions for both drivers not taking DNFs into account and the driver who has a lower average has done the better Sunday. Which in this case is undoubtedly Lewis.

Nico's been better on Saturdays and Lewis on Sundays. This is reflected in the points standings - 4 points the difference with Lewis finishing 1 race less. Points are handed out on the Sunday which closes up a race weekend, so it's points on the board that matters in the end.

Logically then, we'd say Lewis has been the better driver thus far? No matter how marginal. Or could you refute this somehow...because I don't see how.

I'm not trying to refute that at all. I'd actually agree with that 100%. Like I said already, nico is not as fast as hamilton. But if we look at CONSISTENCY, nico is on top in quali, and they're equally CONSISTENT on sunday, i.e. both finishing 1-2 (the order doesn't matter to me when it comes to CONSISTENCY), MINUS DNF's. We all know nico would be 21 points down on lewis without DNF's. With how good the merc car is this year, the consistency and DNF's may well decide the 2014 championship.

Let's say vettel won every race in 2011, and webber finished every race in 2nd place in 2011. They're both equally consistent, i.e. they get RESULTS. Who is the better driver is a different thing.

[geetface9]

You're also saying Rosberg us more consistent and made less errors. He made errors to stop him qualifying close to Lewis in the early races. He made an error in qualifying at Monaco and he made an error leaving the track in Canada. That's quite a lot.
Lewis made an error in Austria quali and made a wrong decision in Silverstone quali. I'd say far more errors to Rosberg, he's just been lucky in that his worst errors benefitted him and hampered Lewis

Rosberg has made less errors in quali than hamilton has. He botched up monaco and lewis didn't get a final run in because he wasn't smart enough to set a pole lap up front like nico did. Even if rosberg got 2nd and hamilton got pole in monaco, he'd still be more consistent because of hamilton's last two qualifying sessions, albeit very marginally. So it'd be either 1 mistake for nico to 2 for lewis, or 0 for nico and still 2 for lewis if rosberg didn't make a mistake in monaco. This season may come down to such small margins.

Ok geet, Nico is a better qualifier than Lewis and has done better, so why is he only 4 points ahead despite a dnf from first for Lewis

Ah, that must mean Lewis is way better on Sundays, the one time Nico qualified in 4th vs the time Lewis qualified in 9th, who drove better recovery drive to the front?

Good thing for Nico is that they now give a trophy for Saturdays, so he won't mind half the points Lewis gets on Sundays when they both finish

Now you're not even on track because you don't have an answer to the fact that nico has been the more consistent qualifier than hamilton this season.

[Hammer278]

If we do the average qualifying positions for each driver, the guy who has a lower average has done the better Saturdays...no question asked since the cars never broke on Saturdays. In this case it's undoubtedly Nico.

On Sundays, if we do the average finishing positions for both drivers not taking DNFs into account and the driver who has a lower average has done the better Sunday. Which in this case is undoubtedly Lewis.

Nico's been better on Saturdays and Lewis on Sundays. This is reflected in the points standings - 4 points the difference with Lewis finishing 1 race less. Points are handed out on the Sunday which closes up a race weekend, so it's points on the board that matters in the end.

Logically then, we'd say Lewis has been the better driver thus far? No matter how marginal. Or could you refute this somehow...because I don't see how.

I'm not trying to refute that at all. I'd actually agree with that 100%. Like I said already, nico is not as fast as hamilton. But if we look at CONSISTENCY, nico is on top in quali, and they're equally CONSISTENT on sunday, i.e. both finishing 1-2 (the order doesn't matter to me when it comes to CONSISTENCY), MINUS DNF's. We all know nico would be 21 points down on lewis without DNF's. With how good the merc car is this year, the consistency and DNF's may well decide the 2014 championship.

Let's say vettel won every race in 2011, and webber finished every race in 2nd place in 2011. They're both equally consistent, i.e. they get RESULTS. Who is the better driver is a different thing.

Ok then we understand one another.

[geetface9]

If we do the average qualifying positions for each driver, the guy who has a lower average has done the better Saturdays...no question asked since the cars never broke on Saturdays. In this case it's undoubtedly Nico.

On Sundays, if we do the average finishing positions for both drivers not taking DNFs into account and the driver who has a lower average has done the better Sunday. Which in this case is undoubtedly Lewis.

Nico's been better on Saturdays and Lewis on Sundays. This is reflected in the points standings - 4 points the difference with Lewis finishing 1 race less. Points are handed out on the Sunday which closes up a race weekend, so it's points on the board that matters in the end.

Logically then, we'd say Lewis has been the better driver thus far? No matter how marginal. Or could you refute this somehow...because I don't see how.

I'm not trying to refute that at all. I'd actually agree with that 100%. Like I said already, nico is not as fast as hamilton. But if we look at CONSISTENCY, nico is on top in quali, and they're equally CONSISTENT on sunday, i.e. both finishing 1-2 (the order doesn't matter to me when it comes to CONSISTENCY), MINUS DNF's. We all know nico would be 21 points down on lewis without DNF's. With how good the merc car is this year, the consistency and DNF's may well decide the 2014 championship.

Let's say vettel won every race in 2011, and webber finished every race in 2nd place in 2011. They're both equally consistent, i.e. they get RESULTS. Who is the better driver is a different thing.

Ok then we understand one another.

Indeed we do

[racechick]

Australia: Lewis 1st Nico 3rd ...about four tenths off, maybe Rosberg made an error

Malaysia:Lewis 1st Nico 3rd .....half a second off , maybe Rosberg made an error.

Bahrain: Nico 1st Lewis 2nd....Nico lost lead in the race, maybe Rosberg made an error

China: Lewis 1st Nico 4th......over a second off the pace and finished race 18 secs down, maybe Rosberg made lots of errors

Spain: Lewis 1st Nico 2nd ...... Two tenths off

Monaco: Nico 1st Lewis 2nd..... Nico def made an error and secured his pole

Canada Nico1st Lewis 2nd..... By 700ths. Rosberg makes an error in the race and Lewis DNF's

Austria Nico 3rd Lewis 9th( no time ).......... Lewis made an error but recovered in the race to 2nd place making up 4? 5? places in the first lap.

GB Nico 1st Lewis 6th....... Lewis made a wrong decision .

Four poles each I make that with two errors to Lewis and lots to Rosberg.

[CookinFlat6]

You're also saying Rosberg us more consistent and made less errors. He made errors to stop him qualifying close to Lewis in the early races. He made an error in qualifying at Monaco and he made an error leaving the track in Canada. That's quite a lot.
Lewis made an error in Austria quali and made a wrong decision in Silverstone quali. I'd say far more errors to Rosberg, he's just been lucky in that his worst errors benefitted him and hampered Lewis

Rosberg has made less errors in quali than hamilton has. He botched up monaco and lewis didn't get a final run in because he wasn't smart enough to set a pole lap up front like nico did. Even if rosberg got 2nd and hamilton got pole in monaco, he'd still be more consistent because of hamilton's last two qualifying sessions, albeit very marginally. So it'd be either 1 mistake for nico to 2 for lewis, or 0 for nico and still 2 for lewis if rosberg didn't make a mistake in monaco. This season may come down to such small margins.

Ok geet, Nico is a better qualifier than Lewis and has done better, so why is he only 4 points ahead despite a dnf from first for Lewis

Ah, that must mean Lewis is way better on Sundays, the one time Nico qualified in 4th vs the time Lewis qualified in 9th, who drove better recovery drive to the front?

Good thing for Nico is that they now give a trophy for Saturdays, so he won't mind half the points Lewis gets on Sundays when they both finish

Now you're not even on track because you don't have an answer to the fact that nico has been the more consistent qualifier than hamilton this season.

There is a big difference between consistency and performance geet
You say Nico is more consistent than Lewis in quali because he has a better average position. This however doesn't mean Nico has made less mistakes as he hasn't, it just means Lewis' mistakes have had more costly consequences - this is complete luck
Therefore Nico is less consistent in quali as he has made more mistakes but he has been lucky enough to have less costly mistakes therefore has better results
Nico has been less consistent than Lewis in the context you are trying to sell, this year and last year, unless ofcourse you care to list the number of mistakes made by both or unless mnm is willing to come out of hiding while Seb is still getting a spanking from his teammate

[What's Burning?]

I'm waiting for mnm's alternate 2014 season where Vettel is spanking the rest of the grid with what is statistically not the fastest car.

[Ferrari man 009]

The best way to look at the championship (in my opinion) is the wins. At the moment it is Lewis 5-3 Nico. 1 win from each has been with the other failing to finish. The only advantage Nico has had in terms of reliability was P2 in Canada (18 points). Therefore, removing reliability Lewis would be net 14 points ahead, which would be the difference of the 2 extra wins he has had (7 points for each one)