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[sagi58]

So many assumptions. So soooo many assumptions about Lewis Hamilton fans. Should we all go over to the Ferrari thread and make generalizations about the Tifosi there?

You're kidding right? That's ALL we hear about from SOME members here.
Generalizations and assumptions, about ALL Ferrari fans, even if those
comments are believed to be cleverly written, they do little to hide the
fact that SOME people use ONE brush to paint ALL Ferrari fans.

Just because I don't take the bait doesn't mean I don't recognize it.
I just refuse to engage.

[What's Burning?]

your logic is short on logic and long on long of pushing the envelope, in the mean time you're welcome to hang out here in the winner's circle just be very careful with the pot stirring.

[Hammer278]

Mercedes AMG Petronas Official Page: 7,001,140 likes.

Yes I do think they can hit ten mill before the season is out....

[CookinFlat6]

Mercedes AMG Petronas Official Page: 7,001,140 likes.

Yes I do think they can hit ten mill before the season is out....

Truly outstanding bit of business for Merc, maybe hiring Lewis was a smart move after all, I wonder what Hugo Boss make of these numbers

And for a team without the passionate and loyal supporters of other high achieving teams.

Interesting how the Tifosi claim to be loyal to a man, claim to support and defend their team no matter what, claim to rely less on knowledge and more on passion, claim to be of one mind on what ferrari and its traditions mean, cliam to enjoy painting faces and wearing silly hats and other merchandise, yet claim that they shouldnt be painted with one brush as they are all so different

[racechick]

So many assumptions. So soooo many assumptions about Lewis Hamilton fans. Should we all go over to the Ferrari thread and make generalizations about the Tifosi there?

You're kidding right? That's ALL we hear about from SOME members here.
Generalizations and assumptions, about ALL Ferrari fans, even if those
comments are believed to be cleverly written, they do little to hide the
fact that SOME people use ONE brush to paint ALL Ferrari fans.

Just because I don't take the bait doesn't mean I don't recognize it.
I just refuse to engage.

If 'SOME people' make assumptions and generalisations about Tifosi, it's wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Yet I distinctly remember 'SOME people', singling out a Tifoso ( Ferariman I think) and praising the way he presented his viewpoint with actual supporting facts.

But back to Mercedes. Do we think they will be hit harder than other teams by a FRIC ban?

[stonemonkey]

But back to Mercedes. Do we think they will be hit harder than other teams by a FRIC ban?

Difficult to say since we have no idea how much performance advantage any of the teams gain from the systems they're using, not only that though, Boullier has said this move is a surprise for mclaren and if its a surprise for everyone else too then it's not just going to be a case of taking the system out the car and depending on how much of the car is designed around the system the team might have to go for a less than optimum solution. If anyone saw this coming or suspected it might happen they could be prepared but i think its crazy that this could be in place for hockenheim and expect the teams to turn up for the weekend with un-tried suspension solutions.

[racechick]

But back to Mercedes. Do we think they will be hit harder than other teams by a FRIC ban?

Difficult to say since we have no idea how much performance advantage any of the teams gain from the systems they're using, not only that though, Boullier has said this move is a surprise for mclaren and if its a surprise for everyone else too then it's not just going to be a case of taking the system out the car and depending on how much of the car is designed around the system the team might have to go for a less than optimum solution. If anyone saw this coming or suspected it might happen they could be prepared but i think its crazy that this could be in place for hockenheim and expect the teams to turn up for the weekend with un-tried suspension solutions.

I agree, a ridiculous thing to spring on teams like that. I'll say more on the FRIC thread , I mentioned Merc because I've heard they have the best one and stand to lose most. ( FIA want to close the gap so hence the writing to teams to get them to protest Merc)

[LRW]

Apparently Mercedes have announced they will not be running FRIC at Germany, and are seeking clarifications.

Struggling to find it in English though.

Only got this..... --------> http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/mercedes-und-red-bull-in-hocknheim-ohne-fric-8453531.html

[stonemonkey]

An attempt to translate to English:

Mercedes wants clarity from the FIA
Mercedes and Red Bull without Fric
Before the GP of Germany is made eager policy behind the scenes. At least two teams have the FIA ​​announced that it will keep the interactive suspension (Fric) illegal. The FIA ​​warns teams, that there could be protests. Mercedes and Red Bull are to drive in Hockenheim without the system.

Nine races long it was quiet on the technology front. No protests, no prohibition, no hidden fouls. That has changed. At least two teams, probably three of them, the FIA noted that they keep the interactive suspensions for illegal. And they may protest since the GP Germany against. It should, this is Ferrari, McLaren and act Caterham.

In technical jargon, the system Fric (front and rear interconnectedness drive) is called. The four suspension points are interconnected hydraulically. A spring in an oil reservoir responds to the individual loads in the dampers and compares it to the other end again. Who makes it perfect, the car keeps in the best aerodynamic position. The advantage is that you can go deeper on the front axle. This brings the output.

This would, in the opinion of his critics contrary to Article 3.15 of the technical regulations. Consequently, must be firmly connected to the sprung mass of the car every part that affects the aerodynamics. In the case of the spring, which responds to the load change, which could be questioned. But do not we all conventional springs and dampers as well? Or the inertia damper and the third spring elements that regulate the ground clearance according to the pressure?

Mercedes wants clarity in Fric topic
The FIA ​​refers to now no clear position. Just that you consider the issue of regulatory compliance relevant. We would be prepared to accept Fric, all teams should agree to the use of this system by year end. 2015 Fric be banned and sometime later replaced by active suspensions. They are less expensive than the current purely mechanical devices that require a lot of simulation and test work until they function properly.

The Mercedes engineers have used two and a half years before they had Fric under control. The decisive tip came from an engineer, one of the early 2013 Lotus had gained. Lotus is considered the inventor of the technology.

Meanwhile, Mercedes and Red Bull are the best in class. Your systems compensate not only the pitching forward and back from, but also control the rolling behavior around the longitudinal axis and also level load changes on the cross. Niki Lauda, ​​the reversal of the FIA ​​do not understand: "The system has been used for two and a half years and has been all technical inspections happened without objection, it is difficult to understand why suddenly changes the perspective of things.."

Lauda calls on FIA race director Charlie Whiting to take a stand. "We do not want to continue to invest in a technology that is guided by the rules of absurdity.'s Why it is so important that we, the FIA ​​specifies clear guidelines in this case. We want to know whether it is legal or illegal."

Balance of power will not shift
At the risk of protest, Mercedes will not be drawn. The championship leader will drive at Hockenheim without the system. According to information from Auto Motor und Sport Red Bull plans to expand its Fric.

The question is whether the protest front thus achieved what they intended. Namely, that the competition comes closer to Mercedes and Red Bull. Experts do not believe that the balance of power will change dramatically. For Mercedes driving is not new territory without Fric. In the winter testing has mostly been driven without the technology.

All will have to come out unscathed, because with the exception of small teams all have the system on board. The pioneer of the art will suffer more, but it will not be sufficient for a Ferrari or McLaren suddenly comes to the level of a Mercedes or a Caterham at the next race with Toro Rosso, Lotus or Clean leaves at the bet.

Technicians appreciate that the impact of a ban on slow tracks are larger than on fast. The teams are not faced with unsolvable problems by the installation and removal. Force India rode two races and the last four without the system. Modifications to the wings were not necessary.

Parallels with the mass damper ban
The case is strongly reminiscent of the mass damper. Renault had the technology invented at the end of 2005. In the course of the 2006 season moved to other teams, but none reached the perfection of the inventor. In the middle of the season, oddly enough, even before the GP Germany, presented the FIA mass damper in question, fearing excesses of the idea and thus an expensive arms race. The world governing body was then assumed to want to influence the world championship in favor of Ferrari.

Although Ferrari was also a mass damper, which was the clearly inferior in its execution of Renault. The driving force behind the FIA ​​Action was then McLaren. Ferrari took the ban has tacitly accepted, because this residue to Renault shrank. Again, parallels can be seen to this day.

The mass damper at the compression and rebound on both axles leveled off weight in the opposite vertical direction. The insulated vehicle movements when braking and accelerating, one on curbs and bumps. In the broadest sense, it was also an intervention into the aerodynamics, because the car was artificially held at rest. The difference Fric: The mass damper was not linked to the suspension. Fric is part of the chassis.

Because of the uncertain legal Renault expanded its mass damper. At that time, had consequences. Renault had no chance at Hockenheim and needed two races until you recovered from the shock. The aerodynamics of the car was tuned to the mass damper. In the end, Fernando Alonso at Renault still world champion.

In our photo gallery from the previous year, we tell you again how Fric works exactly.

[LRW]

Yeah, I read it translated through Chrome, and the bit that gave me a glimmer of hope was....

An attempt to translate to English:

The question is whether the protest front thus achieved what they intended. Namely, that the competition comes closer to Mercedes and Red Bull. Experts do not believe that the balance of power will change dramatically. For Mercedes driving is not new territory without Fric. In the winter testing has mostly been driven without the technology.

[stonemonkey]

Yeah, I read it translated through Chrome, and the bit that gave me a glimmer of hope was....

An attempt to translate to English:

The question is whether the protest front thus achieved what they intended. Namely, that the competition comes closer to Mercedes and Red Bull. Experts do not believe that the balance of power will change dramatically. For Mercedes driving is not new territory without Fric. In the winter testing has mostly been driven without the technology.

Yeah I saw that too, seems to allay some of my thoughts, at least for Merc.

[racechick]

It's clearly an attempt by the FIA to get the teams to protest red bull and Mercedes And close the gap. Why the f*** can't they just decide legal or illegal? And why now in the middle of the season?

[What's Burning?]

Frankly I don't care, it's affecting all teams, and if Mercedes has to reinvent their wheel, I believe they'll be able to do it quite easily. In the grand scheme of things it's yet another challenge that a superior driver/team will be able to overcome.

Please let's not get soured as some fans did last year did claiming they got their championship stolen from them because of the tire situation. Like the tire situation this affects all teams, some more than others, it's a crappy albeit not surprising thing for the FiA to do. Roll up your sleeves all, and let's go racing.

[Hammer278]

Agreed^, I'm sure the top 3 teams at least are running the system. Let's see how it pans out in Germany, Mercedes has about a 1.5s buffer to work with.

[racechick]

I'm not overly worried about this now I've read a bit more. Merc have the best one, Red Bull the next best. FI don't run one and McLaren and Ferrari have one that's not so good. I don't know about Williams.its worth about .3 or .4 a lap (so not a big worry to Mercedes) and it is less effective on high speed power tracks , more effective on twisty ones.
I think that's what I've garnered. Don't shoot me if I've got it wrong.

I still think though that the FIA go about their business appallingly badly.

Edit: a bit more here.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... hockenheim