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[racechick]

Well!! You must all be looking at a different JPM to me. Jpm was one of the best EVER with car control. Only reasons he lost out eventually was
a) he was racing with a broken shoulder
b)the car was very understeery that year and he liked it oversteary (like Lewis does) Cant remember why it was like that I think because of the tyres.
Anyway he certainly put Michael in his place several times.
To the guy who he didnt talk to- that was bad of him but he is hot tempered so maybe you caught him at a bad time-car not going right or an arguement with Connie. Or maybe he just didnt see you if you were only 10 and little. That sort of behaviour is contrary to everything Ive read about him (though he does hate the press and could get arsey with them). He hates politics and the closed corporate way F1 has become and he dislikes its distance from the fans. I saw him at Rockingham when the Champ cars came there to race, he was in F1 by then but had come to see and support his old mates. He was mingling with fans and signing autographs and chatting.
If things had gone right(no broken shoulder,car more to his driving style) he would EASY be world champion.
He is NOT fat and McLaren Fan Ive gone off you

[Hanwombat]

Yeah so I have seen, tis a shame, Anthony I believe has talent just needs to be in a better car

[darwin dali]

Well!! You must all be looking at a different JPM to me. Jpm was one of the best EVER with car control. Only reasons he lost out eventually was
a) he was racing with a broken shoulder
b)the car was very understeery that year and he liked it oversteary (like Lewis does) Cant remember why it was like that I think because of the tyres.
Anyway he certainly put Michael in his place several times.
To the guy who he didnt talk to- that was bad of him but he is hot tempered so maybe you caught him at a bad time-car not going right or an arguement with Connie. Or maybe he just didnt see you if you were only 10 and little. That sort of behaviour is contrary to everything Ive read about him (though he does hate the press and could get arsey with them). He hates politics and the closed corporate way F1 has become and he dislikes its distance from the fans. I saw him at Rockingham when the Champ cars came there to race, he was in F1 by then but had come to see and support his old mates. He was mingling with fans and signing autographs and chatting.
If things had gone right(no broken shoulder,car more to his driving style) he would EASY be world champion.
He is NOT fat and McLaren Fan Ive gone off you

Nah, he's not fat, just a wee chubby, a tad round around the waist line, just a bit a large frame, heavy-boned, man tits and all.

[racechick]

Well!! You must all be looking at a different JPM to me. Jpm was one of the best EVER with car control. Only reasons he lost out eventually was
a) he was racing with a broken shoulder
b)the car was very understeery that year and he liked it oversteary (like Lewis does) Cant remember why it was like that I think because of the tyres.
Anyway he certainly put Michael in his place several times.
To the guy who he didnt talk to- that was bad of him but he is hot tempered so maybe you caught him at a bad time-car not going right or an arguement with Connie. Or maybe he just didnt see you if you were only 10 and little. That sort of behaviour is contrary to everything Ive read about him (though he does hate the press and could get arsey with them). He hates politics and the closed corporate way F1 has become and he dislikes its distance from the fans. I saw him at Rockingham when the Champ cars came there to race, he was in F1 by then but had come to see and support his old mates. He was mingling with fans and signing autographs and chatting.
If things had gone right(no broken shoulder,car more to his driving style) he would EASY be world champion.
He is NOT fat and McLaren Fan Ive gone off you

Nah, he's not fat, just a wee chubby, a tad round around the waist line, just a bit a large frame, heavy-boned, man tits and all.

Well he doesnt starve him self like some of the ponces in F1 at the moment. And he is just built strongly not whimpily...NO WAY FAT!

[al4x]

if they go under id still like AD to come to renault in place of piquet

[darwin dali]

Well!! You must all be looking at a different JPM to me. Jpm was one of the best EVER with car control. Only reasons he lost out eventually was
a) he was racing with a broken shoulder
b)the car was very understeery that year and he liked it oversteary (like Lewis does) Cant remember why it was like that I think because of the tyres.
Anyway he certainly put Michael in his place several times.
To the guy who he didnt talk to- that was bad of him but he is hot tempered so maybe you caught him at a bad time-car not going right or an arguement with Connie. Or maybe he just didnt see you if you were only 10 and little. That sort of behaviour is contrary to everything Ive read about him (though he does hate the press and could get arsey with them). He hates politics and the closed corporate way F1 has become and he dislikes its distance from the fans. I saw him at Rockingham when the Champ cars came there to race, he was in F1 by then but had come to see and support his old mates. He was mingling with fans and signing autographs and chatting.
If things had gone right(no broken shoulder,car more to his driving style) he would EASY be world champion.
He is NOT fat and McLaren Fan Ive gone off you

Nah, he's not fat, just a wee chubby, a tad round around the waist line, just a bit a large frame, heavy-boned, man tits and all.

Well he doesnt starve him self like some of the ponces in F1 at the moment. And he is just built strongly not whimpily...NO WAY FAT!

No way fat, but man tits? He looks like Divine at her best.

[racechick]

Euch! Now you're just being gross!!

[McLaren Fan]

Well!! You must all be looking at a different JPM to me. Jpm was one of the best EVER with car control. Only reasons he lost out eventually was
a) he was racing with a broken shoulder
b)the car was very understeery that year and he liked it oversteary (like Lewis does) Cant remember why it was like that I think because of the tyres.
Anyway he certainly put Michael in his place several times.
To the guy who he didnt talk to- that was bad of him but he is hot tempered so maybe you caught him at a bad time-car not going right or an arguement with Connie. Or maybe he just didnt see you if you were only 10 and little. That sort of behaviour is contrary to everything Ive read about him (though he does hate the press and could get arsey with them). He hates politics and the closed corporate way F1 has become and he dislikes its distance from the fans. I saw him at Rockingham when the Champ cars came there to race, he was in F1 by then but had come to see and support his old mates. He was mingling with fans and signing autographs and chatting.
If things had gone right(no broken shoulder,car more to his driving style) he would EASY be world champion.
He is NOT fat and McLaren Fan Ive gone off you

I'm not worried to be really honest.

When I see somebody being paid millions of pounds I expect him to do a good job. He (and Raikkonen, to a lesser degree) did not, I'm afraid to say. Montoya had the skill to be a great champion, but he wasn't prepared to the put in the effort to develop the car, adapt to the car's handling, get himself physically fit enough to drive the car (which would also improve his mental strength), and show his brilliance consistently. There are 18 races in a Formula One season, therefore, you have to very good at all the races, not half a dozen.

If I don't my work properly, or only work for half a season, I get the sack. Montoya wasn't doing his job properly, so got the sack (and should have been sued under the Trade Descriptions act for masquerading as a Formula One driver). Sad, but true.

[racechick]

Well!! You must all be looking at a different JPM to me. Jpm was one of the best EVER with car control. Only reasons he lost out eventually was
a) he was racing with a broken shoulder
b)the car was very understeery that year and he liked it oversteary (like Lewis does) Cant remember why it was like that I think because of the tyres.
Anyway he certainly put Michael in his place several times.
To the guy who he didnt talk to- that was bad of him but he is hot tempered so maybe you caught him at a bad time-car not going right or an arguement with Connie. Or maybe he just didnt see you if you were only 10 and little. That sort of behaviour is contrary to everything Ive read about him (though he does hate the press and could get arsey with them). He hates politics and the closed corporate way F1 has become and he dislikes its distance from the fans. I saw him at Rockingham when the Champ cars came there to race, he was in F1 by then but had come to see and support his old mates. He was mingling with fans and signing autographs and chatting.
If things had gone right(no broken shoulder,car more to his driving style) he would EASY be world champion.
He is NOT fat and McLaren Fan Ive gone off you

I'm not worried to be really honest.

When I see somebody being paid millions of pounds I expect him to do a good job. He (and Raikkonen, to a lesser degree) did not, I'm afraid to say. Montoya had the skill to be a great champion, but he wasn't prepared to the put in the effort to develop the car, adapt to the car's handling, get himself physically fit enough to drive the car (which would also improve his mental strength), and show his brilliance consistently. There are 18 races in a Formula One season, therefore, you have to very good at all the races, not half a dozen.

If I don't my work properly, or only work for half a season, I get the sack. Montoya wasn't doing his job properly, so got the sack (and should have been sued under the Trade Descriptions act for masquerading as a Formula One driver). Sad, but true.

Thats crap. He didnt get the sack, he walked!! Masquerading???? He was the most talented on the grid.
They're ALL paid millions of pounds and most of them are drop dead boring yes men Yes there are 18 races in a season and in some he got unlucky but being briliant in six has been enough for many drivers to win champioships. He was a racer. Its meant to be motor RACING.

[McLaren Fan]

Well!! You must all be looking at a different JPM to me. Jpm was one of the best EVER with car control. Only reasons he lost out eventually was
a) he was racing with a broken shoulder
b)the car was very understeery that year and he liked it oversteary (like Lewis does) Cant remember why it was like that I think because of the tyres.
Anyway he certainly put Michael in his place several times.
To the guy who he didnt talk to- that was bad of him but he is hot tempered so maybe you caught him at a bad time-car not going right or an arguement with Connie. Or maybe he just didnt see you if you were only 10 and little. That sort of behaviour is contrary to everything Ive read about him (though he does hate the press and could get arsey with them). He hates politics and the closed corporate way F1 has become and he dislikes its distance from the fans. I saw him at Rockingham when the Champ cars came there to race, he was in F1 by then but had come to see and support his old mates. He was mingling with fans and signing autographs and chatting.
If things had gone right(no broken shoulder,car more to his driving style) he would EASY be world champion.
He is NOT fat and McLaren Fan Ive gone off you

I'm not worried to be really honest.

When I see somebody being paid millions of pounds I expect him to do a good job. He (and Raikkonen, to a lesser degree) did not, I'm afraid to say. Montoya had the skill to be a great champion, but he wasn't prepared to the put in the effort to develop the car, adapt to the car's handling, get himself physically fit enough to drive the car (which would also improve his mental strength), and show his brilliance consistently. There are 18 races in a Formula One season, therefore, you have to very good at all the races, not half a dozen.

If I don't my work properly, or only work for half a season, I get the sack. Montoya wasn't doing his job properly, so got the sack (and should have been sued under the Trade Descriptions act for masquerading as a Formula One driver). Sad, but true.

Thats crap. He didnt get the sack, he walked!! Masquerading???? He was the most talented on the grid.
They're ALL paid millions of pounds and most of them are drop dead boring yes men Yes there are 18 races in a season and in some he got unlucky but being briliant in six has been enough for many drivers to win champioships. He was a racer. Its meant to be motor RACING.

Aye. Did you know Alonso wasn't sacked from McLaren after last season. He was allowed to leave quietly to preserve what little dignity had left. The same with Montoya. As for masquerading as a Grand Prix driver, of course he was. Formula One drivers are meant to be physically and mentally tough. What McLaren paid for was some obese, unfit slob who cost the team more points than what he won, bottled races in which all he needed to do was bring the car home, couldn't adapt to the style of the McLaren car (which I don't believe was as 'understeery' as you would have us believe; think MP4-10 and then you'll know about understeer), and didn't put maximum effort into the testing programme. I say this as somebody who has been watching Formula One and watching McLaren for years (I don't change my team every five seconds like some). Does Montoya sound like somebody more talented like Alonso, Schumacher, Raikkonen? If you answer yes to any of those three, then I'm afraid you're delusional. By the way, the aim of Formula One is to win drivers' and constructors' championship (or do as well as you can), so to suggest somehow that Montoya's every other heated Latin moment atones for all the other things is the stuff of madness.

[racechick]

Well!! You must all be looking at a different JPM to me. Jpm was one of the best EVER with car control. Only reasons he lost out eventually was
a) he was racing with a broken shoulder
b)the car was very understeery that year and he liked it oversteary (like Lewis does) Cant remember why it was like that I think because of the tyres.
Anyway he certainly put Michael in his place several times.
To the guy who he didnt talk to- that was bad of him but he is hot tempered so maybe you caught him at a bad time-car not going right or an arguement with Connie. Or maybe he just didnt see you if you were only 10 and little. That sort of behaviour is contrary to everything Ive read about him (though he does hate the press and could get arsey with them). He hates politics and the closed corporate way F1 has become and he dislikes its distance from the fans. I saw him at Rockingham when the Champ cars came there to race, he was in F1 by then but had come to see and support his old mates. He was mingling with fans and signing autographs and chatting.
If things had gone right(no broken shoulder,car more to his driving style) he would EASY be world champion.
He is NOT fat and McLaren Fan Ive gone off you

I'm not worried to be really honest.

When I see somebody being paid millions of pounds I expect him to do a good job. He (and Raikkonen, to a lesser degree) did not, I'm afraid to say. Montoya had the skill to be a great champion, but he wasn't prepared to the put in the effort to develop the car, adapt to the car's handling, get himself physically fit enough to drive the car (which would also improve his mental strength), and show his brilliance consistently. There are 18 races in a Formula One season, therefore, you have to very good at all the races, not half a dozen.

If I don't my work properly, or only work for half a season, I get the sack. Montoya wasn't doing his job properly, so got the sack (and should have been sued under the Trade Descriptions act for masquerading as a Formula One driver). Sad, but true.

Thats crap. He didnt get the sack, he walked!! Masquerading???? He was the most talented on the grid.
They're ALL paid millions of pounds and most of them are drop dead boring yes men Yes there are 18 races in a season and in some he got unlucky but being briliant in six has been enough for many drivers to win champioships. He was a racer. Its meant to be motor RACING.

Aye. Did you know Alonso wasn't sacked from McLaren after last season. He was allowed to leave quietly to preserve what little dignity had left. The same with Montoya. As for masquerading as a Grand Prix driver, of course he was. Formula One drivers are meant to be physically and mentally tough. What McLaren paid for was some obese, unfit slob who cost the team more points than what he won, bottled races in which all he needed to do was bring the car home, couldn't adapt to the style of the McLaren car (which I don't believe was as 'understeery' as you would have us believe; think MP4-10 and then you'll know about understeer), and didn't put maximum effort into the testing programme. I say this as somebody who has been watching Formula One and watching McLaren for years (I don't change my team every five seconds like some). Does Montoya sound like somebody more talented like Alonso, Schumacher, Raikkonen? If you answer yes to any of those three, then I'm afraid you're delusional. By the way, the aim of Formula One is to win drivers' and constructors' championship (or do as well as you can), so to suggest somehow that Montoya's every other heated Latin moment atones for all the other things is the stuff of madness.

He had the measure of Raikkonen. in fact without the broken shoulder he had the edge and dont try to tell me Kimi puts in the hours of testing

Ive been following racing for many years too and i dont change my drivers every five minutes. I was watching Montoya in CHAMp cars(Which was pretty competitive back then when he WON THE CHAMPIONSHIP, though I suppose you'll say any fat slob could have won it ) And I still watch him now in NASCAR. IVe had three drivers Hill, JPM and Lewis so dont try to make out Im fickle.
Now if you're talking unproffessional behaviour then Alonso comes way down below JPM. When JPM got pissed off he walked he did not hold his team to ransom to get favourable treatment Didnt need to resort to that and had far more self respect than to allow himself to do so. He walked mid season . He phoned his mate across the pond and was gone the next week. Alonso hung around till he was sacked.
And if your talking comparisom with Schuey I can remember many a classice move he pulled on him without ever having to resort to Scumachers tactics of putting competitors at risk or bending the rules. JPM raced hard and he raced fair.He was the best of them.

[McLaren Fan]

I don't give a toss about Montoya's unprofessional behaviour. What I'm concerned with is how good a job he did at McLaren, and, simply, Montoya didn't do a good enough job, was a let-down, and had to go. As I said to you before, Montoya had a lot of skill, yes, but was not prepared to put in the hours in testing, getting physically fit, and being more consistent. As for Raikkonen, I refer you to some of the posts I made on this forum about his time at McLaren, which also pretty disappointing. Like Montoya, he wasn't putting the hours in on the test track or his fitness (although was more consistent than Montoya), so I was not too sad to him leave McLaren either. Schumacher: dirty on the track at times, not really; a cheat at times, for sure, i.e. parking his car at Monaco in 2006, not to mention Australia 1994 and Europe 1998; but his skill behind a wheel, and his commitment to testing, and his physical and mental fitness was there for all to see. Schumacher may not have had the same ability as, say, Ayrton Senna, but he did his utmost to make up for that through his commitment - something Montoya should have been doing in Formula One and something Raikkonen should have been doing before this winter. Champions are made on skill alone, but their commitment - yes, I say the word again - to their cause. Raikkonen wasn't committed when he was at McLaren, hence he won no titles until he pulled his finger out. Montoya wasn't committed, hence he won not titles and his career came to a premature end.

[racechick]

I don't give a toss about Montoya's unprofessional behaviour. What I'm concerned with is how good a job he did at McLaren, and, simply, Montoya didn't do a good enough job, was a let-down, and had to go. As I said to you before, Montoya had a lot of skill, yes, but was not prepared to put in the hours in testing, getting physically fit, and being more consistent. As for Raikkonen, I refer you to some of the posts I made on this forum about his time at McLaren, which also pretty disappointing. Like Montoya, he wasn't putting the hours in on the test track or his fitness (although was more consistent than Montoya), so I was not too sad to him leave McLaren either. Schumacher: dirty on the track at times, not really; a cheat at times, for sure, i.e. parking his car at Monaco in 2006, not to mention Australia 1994 and Europe 1998; but his skill behind a wheel, and his commitment to testing, and his physical and mental fitness was there for all to see. Schumacher may not have had the same ability as, say, Ayrton Senna, but he did his utmost to make up for that through his commitment - something Montoya should have been doing in Formula One and something Raikkonen should have been doing before this winter. Champions are made on skill alone, but their commitment - yes, I say the word again - to their cause. Raikkonen wasn't committed when he was at McLaren, hence he won no titles until he pulled his finger out. Montoya wasn't committed, hence he won not titles and his career came to a premature end.

I will concede some of your points.
Schumacher worked hard, trained hard and knew how to develop a car; he also ensued he had no competative team mate , cheated and he DID race dirty. Ive seen him weave, cut people up, leave no space, clos ethe door and put other drivers on the grass at high speed. He had to do all the above to make up for not be an instinctive racer and not having top level natural talent.
Juan did have top level talent and car control, he did drive instinctively. He never deliberately cut up other drivers and had a competitive team mate.He didnt spend hours in the gym but was always fit enough to race because he is one of those naturally strong muscley guys. He didnt take part in political off track nonsense.And I guess on the development front he was a biyt lazy.

So you could argue Schumacher had the better qualities to become a champion. Yes. If thats what you want above all else.Juan didnt, he wanted to win races by being the fastest driver and he wouldnt cheat.

So it comes down to personal preference and i prefer the guy with the natuaral talent and a racing instinct who may forget a championship is at stake but puts the move on his competitor anyway.

Yes ayrton had the talent, not fit though and I dont know about his work ethic. He was more a Juan than a Schumacher though there were times when he treated his competitors a little contemptuously. Perhaps he was just the right mix of both.
Juan would have fared much better in a previous era when cars had to be controlled by the driver, F1 was less political and drivers werent nurse maided.
I know championships arent won on skill alone but I prefer watching the skilled drivers rather than the corporate cardboard cut outs or cheats.

[Jabberwocky]

if Sato and Davidson are that good why have they not been picked up by a Mid or Front running team. I am sure F1 Talent scouts get paid a lot of money by the teams to notice what drivers are really like. As McLaren has done with HK, seen the promise and signed him.

What is it that they have not see with TS or AD?

[8-ball]

if Sato and Davidson are that good why have they not been picked up by a Mid or Front running team. I am sure F1 Talent scouts get paid a lot of money by the teams to notice what drivers are really like. As McLaren has done with HK, seen the promise and signed him.

What is it that they have not see with TS or AD?

Mclaren signed kovi because they couldn't get Nico. He was second choice but he does have a lot of talent.

I don't give a toss about Montoya's unprofessional behaviour. What I'm concerned with is how good a job he did at McLaren, and, simply, Montoya didn't do a good enough job, was a let-down, and had to go. As I said to you before, Montoya had a lot of skill, yes, but was not prepared to put in the hours in testing, getting physically fit, and being more consistent. As for Raikkonen, I refer you to some of the posts I made on this forum about his time at McLaren, which also pretty disappointing. Like Montoya, he wasn't putting the hours in on the test track or his fitness (although was more consistent than Montoya), so I was not too sad to him leave McLaren either. Schumacher: dirty on the track at times, not really; a cheat at times, for sure, i.e. parking his car at Monaco in 2006, not to mention Australia 1994 and Europe 1998; but his skill behind a wheel, and his commitment to testing, and his physical and mental fitness was there for all to see. Schumacher may not have had the same ability as, say, Ayrton Senna, but he did his utmost to make up for that through his commitment - something Montoya should have been doing in Formula One and something Raikkonen should have been doing before this winter. Champions are made on skill alone, but their commitment - yes, I say the word again - to their cause. Raikkonen wasn't committed when he was at McLaren, hence he won no titles until he pulled his finger out. Montoya wasn't committed, hence he won not titles and his career came to a premature end.

Schumi was the ultimate all round driver and for every championship he won dirty he won another one fairly. Lewis i believe has the physical attributes but is lacking in the testing ability and hasn't rallied the team around him yet but that will take time. Schumi is definitely a closer comparison to senna than lewis is as they both did anything they could to win. Lewis has not yet stooped to that level.