FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[What's Burning?]

Just want to put this out there. Why didn't Rosberg receive a penalty for leaving the track and accelerating to gain an advantage? These are the rules.

Here's the regulation governing track limits:
20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.

Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.

A driver may not deliberately leave the track without justifiable reason.

LRW put forward his understanding of this rule earlier....it's the bolded part which is key. If Lewis has kept the gap at 1.6-2 seconds and didn't close up again I believe the stewards would be forced to intervene. Unfortunately Lewis kept the pressure on and closed up in 2 laps again and in the end it backfired big time on him. Sometimes you do have to be cunning in these circumstances and Lewis wasn't cunning enough.

Though I really wouldn't put money on the stewards penalizing Rosberg even if Lewis did the smart thing.

Yeah, it would've been too harsh I think. Tough call, and Rosberg had already lost over 2 seconds from his car starting to fail.
What are the options? Warning, 5 seconds, or drive-through? If those are the only options then a warning was the fair decision.

Not sure how you're doing the numbers to get the two seconds, from what I recall, Lewis was chipping away about 2~4 tenths a lap for a few laps to catch him up. (that's when Nico asked about the brake bias Lewis was using, I assumed to better defend against him) I don't recall when he passed Vettel and started gaining on Nico but it wasn't an at extraordinary pace as if there was something wrong with Nico's car, otherwise he'd have had no problems overtaking him. From the radio communications Lewis reported the loss of power first. From the post race interviews Lewis mentioned that Nico's car had the issue first, but the brakes and loss of power, although related are not one in the same in manifestation.

[Cyril Sneer Racing]

Rosber lost .9 seconds on lap 21 and .5 on 22. That's after being faster for 10+ laps. Seems way too large a margin. It was those two laps that put Hamilton behind Rosberg more than anything else. And when Hamilton started to fail it was also a .9s loss.

[What's Burning?]

Rosber lost .9 seconds on lap 21 and .5 on 22. That's after being faster for 10+ laps. Seems way too large a margin. It was those two laps that put Hamilton behind Rosberg more than anything else. And when Hamilton started to fail it was also a .9s loss.

I'm not doubting the numbers, I'm just still partially grieving for what could have been. I have no doubt about the WDC results, but I really was pushing for Mercedes to keep the perfection alive, and perhaps the 1-2 results alive as well. It was not to be.

It would be odd though that Nico's issue would prop up first given that he was the only one in clean air, and Hamilton in dirty air would have seen a much larger impact. Perhaps Nico's manifestation of the issues were more brake related and not power related in the beginning since he didn't complain about a power loss. We never heard Hamilton complain about the brakes, the first time was to complain about the power.

[Cyril Sneer Racing]

Yes, I think it's a great track to see a potential battle. Unfortunately it seemed about that time for car failures. We could have seen a very good battle between the two drivers, to see if someone could pass from behind. But right now it seems whoever gets the start will stay in front.

I suspect it was a software failure, and given that Rosberg appeared to fail around 3-5 laps after a pitstop, I think it is highly likely they occurred as I laid out.

It seems Hamilton only has one more power unit for the rest of the year as well.

[What's Burning?]

Hmmm don't know about that for Lewis, this was as of last weekend. Also Nico continues to have relatively crappy starts and he managed to have another one in Montreal, and he had to make a very "unsportsmanlike" move in turn one because of it. I'm sure Dieter will talk to him about it.

[Hammer278]

Rosber lost .9 seconds on lap 21 and .5 on 22. That's after being faster for 10+ laps. Seems way too large a margin. It was those two laps that put Hamilton behind Rosberg more than anything else. And when Hamilton started to fail it was also a .9s loss.

After being faster for 10+ laps? How do you reckon. Lewis was consistently keeping a gap with the options. When they came out with the primes after the 1st stop Lewis reeled him in like a fish and then Nico started talking setups with his engineer, and then few laps later the gap was suddenly 2 seconds and Lewis called in saying he's lost power.

Then at least a lap later, Nico called in complaining about the same thing.

Whatever...I'm sure of this timeline and my claim of over 2 seconds before Lewis spoke up first about power, since I was watching the timing beam in every sector of every lap. But this race is over, onto the next one which can't come soon enough.

[Cyril Sneer Racing]

How do I reckon? Because he was faster for 10+ laps, that's why. Lewis was behind by 1.3 as he passed Vettel, and then ten laps later he was 2.3 seconds behind Rosberg.
Who is faster if that happens?
Then, as I pointed out three times now, Rosberg dropped .9s in one lap several laps after his pitstop (he was still faster for the first few laps, then a huge drop all at once, that indicates a problem), and then another .5 seconds. So Hamilton wasn't reeling him in, he was catching up to a failing car that had been faster than him up to that point in the race.

Edit: Actually it was 1.8 seconds approximately in two laps. I can't see any reason he would be that much faster after being slower for the first part of the race other than the problem starting on Rosberg's car after the pits.

[Hammer278]

Okay, now we're on the same page. You're saying Rosberg started failing after the first pitstop when Hamilton was reeling him in. I don't know their relative pace, was it Hamilton speeding up after 2 laps or Rosberg slowing down? I was watching sector times and Hamilton was going green in S2 and S3 for 2-3 laps, so doesn't this mean Hamilton was picking up the pace?

Anyone got a lap by lap chart of this?

[CookinFlat6]

It seems Hamilton only has one more power unit for the rest of the year as well.

Are you serious? You know that he retired in the first race, so thats a whole race less on a PU than his teammate

But how do you come to the conclusion that Lewis has used up his power units?

[Hammer278]

He meant to say PU COMPONENT...its true Lewis has only two left (the one he's on now is the 4th). After that it's a 5 place grid penalty.

Vettel for example, if the CE he has on now fails in Austria, its a 5 place penalty the next race.

[Cyril Sneer Racing]

Rosberg was ahead by 2.3 before the first stop, then with the pit Hamilton lost .5 seconds. So approximately 2.9 seconds behind. Then just after two laps he was within a second. This is only 2-3 laps after Rosberg's stop (laps 18-21), so his electronics may have overheated. This was after Rosberg being a tenth per lap (over ten laps) faster on the first set of tyres.

Edit: Yes, sorry. The component is what Hamilton already replaced this past weekend:
"Mercedes has enjoyed better reliability with these components than its rivals, although Hamilton had replaced his control electronics after Saturday morning practice. That was the third unit he has used this year, compared to Rosberg's two.

With this failure, Hamilton will have to use his fourth set of control electronics, meaning he has just one more set to use for the balance of the season without incurring grid penalties."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114357

[CookinFlat6]

I do not think this is the case at all. The grid drops come after using up more than 5 complete PU component set.

Would be good if links or facts could be provided with these sweeping statements

[Cyril Sneer Racing]

Just posted in my edit above, sorry about that. Sounds like terrible news to me.

[Hammer278]

I do not think this is the case at all. The grid drops come after using up more than 5 complete PU component set.

Would be good if links or facts could be provided with these sweeping statements

Hey man you should know by now I don't say sh*t without knowing my sh*t.

Rosberg was ahead by 2.3 before the first stop, then with the pit Hamilton lost .5 seconds. So approximately 2.9 seconds behind. Then just after two laps he was within a second. This is only 2-3 laps after Rosberg's stop (laps 18-21), so his electronics may have overheated. This was after Rosberg being a tenth per lap (over ten laps) faster on the first set of tyres.

Need a lap by lap chart to see if Rosberg slowed down or Hamilton sped up. I remember seeing the latter on my timing screens, but need confirmation.

[CookinFlat6]

Ah ok, but we need to understand the context, for example he could choose to use an extra whole PU for the same penalty I believe

Lots of drivers will be doing exactly that this season

@hamms, if the sh!t is the sh!t, then the sh!t is legit was just wondering if it was another of those rules 'exclusive' to Lewis