FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Jabberwocky]

assuming your petrol does not rot your fuel flow meters lol

[racechick]

At best fuel will give you a tenth or two. Where the is more of an impact is power produced in a variety of conditions, they may have four or five different fuel mixes for different circuits and weather conditions.

Did they say how important it might be? I mean is there a suggestion that it could be a significant part of the 1+ second lead Mercedes has over the rest of the field.

I can't remember. It was a very technical article and I was writing from memory, but the impression I got was that the gains were big. I'll maybe stop being a tight arse and buy the magazine.

[bud]

It can't be Mercedes 1 Second lead as every team bar McLaren run the same lubes.

With fuel flow rate a major inconvenience for the teams this year it is only natural to try and maximise the petrols performance.

[What's Burning?]

Let's not forget the most important thing about gas, don't run out of it.

[sagi58]

...I was reading this weeks Autosport in Tesco ( don't currently have a subscription) and there was an article on ' Fuel is the new battleground' by Johnathon Noble...

Would this be it?

, Jonathan Noble wrote:">Analysis: Fuel is new F1 battleground


Formula 1 teams believe that fuel has now become a key part of the sport's technology development fight.

While teams have gained huge knowledge of the competitive differences between the different cars this season, one surprise conclusion has been about just how important fuel now is to performance.

With speed differences having shown up between the same engines using different fuel, and big straight speed gains being found with new petrol products, F1's leading figures believe a new battleground has opened up.

And it is one that could result in it being as important to the competitive order as more traditional areas like aerodynamics and tyre wear.

Red Bull boss Christian Horner told AUTOSPORT: "Fuel for sure is a key area of development and something that all the fuel suppliers are working on very hard. This is an opportunity for fuel suppliers to make a difference."

Williams head of vehicle performance Rob Smedley said: "There can be a lot of performance in it, especially as it's a new breed of internal combustion engine - a V6 with different compression rates and all the rest of it.

"There's a very different fuelling regime both in terms of efficiency, and power so there's lots to be gained there."

While the new 100 kg limit of fuel per race may have pointed towards a focus on simple efficiency, engine makers say that big power gains are possible from better fuel because of the way new energy recovery systems are working.

Renault's F1 engine chief Rob White said: "Fuel consumption improvement can directly influence end of straight speed quite a lot.

"I don't want to over egg the pudding, but if you gain sufficient fuel to be able to spend a little bit of fuel on generating electricity, it opens the door to energy deployment.

"There can be perhaps a biggish difference on end of straight speed, and a noticeable difference on lap time, from just a small change in fuel consumption."

[racechick]

That's part if it Sagi, but it's not the subscription only part. If you look at that article online it says 'click here' to read more, and there's an article with ten points on why fuel has become so important, you can start reading it but have to have a sub or pay to continue. It's very technical but was also very interesting. I'm hoping it will appear on the web somewhere at some time.
Thanks for trying though Sagi.

[LRW]

That's part if it Sagi, but it's not the subscription only part. If you look at that article online it says 'click here' to read more, and there's an article with ten points on why fuel has become so important, you can start reading it but have to have a sub or pay to continue. It's very technical but was also very interesting. I'm hoping it will appear on the web somewhere at some time.
Thanks for trying though Sagi.

RC - why dont you just take one bottle of Bollinger La Grande Année Brut Rose 2004, off of this weeks Waitrose order, and pay your subs - so we can all enjoy the article in full??

[Ichabod]

That's part if it Sagi, but it's not the subscription only part. If you look at that article online it says 'click here' to read more, and there's an article with ten points on why fuel has become so important, you can start reading it but have to have a sub or pay to continue. It's very technical but was also very interesting. I'm hoping it will appear on the web somewhere at some time.
Thanks for trying though Sagi.

RC - why dont you just take one bottle of Bollinger La Grande Année Brut Rose 2004, off of this weeks Waitrose order, and pay your subs - so we can all enjoy the article in full??

Leave off a bottle of Bolly you didn't think that through , did you ?

[sagi58]

That's part if it Sagi, but it's not the subscription only part...

OK! I thought that was the part you were referring to!
I did see that there was another link provided about the
10 facts about the fuel war in F1, this year.

Let's keep our eyes open, I'm sure something will show up!!

[racechick]

Well I've bought the magazine now . So I'll précis the points and post shortly ( been away for a couple of days and only just back) But you are right, I have to bite the bullet and sign up for Autosport again. I'll probably get the iPad app, but NOT at the expense of vital staple items of my diet!

[Jabberwocky]

I stopped my autosport subscription as I found them to be slower to news than other sites, and the technical reviews where coming more and more rare

Sent using NCC-1701

[racechick]

I stopped it in the off season with a view to restarting it if I missed it, I do kindov miss it.

[stonemonkey]

Well I've bought the magazine now . So I'll précis the points and post shortly ( been away for a couple of days and only just back) But you are right, I have to bite the bullet and sign up for Autosport again. I'll probably get the iPad app, but NOT at the expense of vital staple items of my diet!

Any update on this RC?

[racechick]

Yes been lax. I'll run over the main points , some may also have been mentioned before. Also not sure this is exactly the same as the ten point article online. But here we are, it's better than nothing.

Merc doing well because of it's close work with Petronas from the off . force India and Williams use same fuel so also get the benefit.

COO of Petronas said these engines need new kind of fuel and hardly anything can be taken from the past. He's been in the business 20 yrs and never has fuel been a design element from the concept of the engine

Significant power difference between same engines but different fuel . 30bhp.

Vettel pointed out in Spain that a new fuel from Shell gave Nando a 7km/h speed boost down the straight in China.

Efficiency is power. Lap time can be delivered from more use of MGU-H which can be charged through fuel use.

Fuel consumption can directly influence end of straight speed quit a lot.

If you can gain sufficient fuel to spend some on electricity, it opens door to more energy deployment. There can be a biggish difference on end- of-straight speed and a noticeable difference on lap time from a small change in fuel consumption.

Shell have introduced three performance steps so far and there are more to come.

Total introduced one in Spain helping red Bull emerge as main challengers to Merc

Merceds whilst it has an advantage is holding fire on upgrades until it has something with a big gain.

Horner convinced battle between fuel suppliers will play a big part in the competitive order for the rest of the season.

Key for fuel suppliers is to deliver maximum energy within the 100kg limit and the 100kg/h flow rate. This is complicated by the demands of the direct injection turbo that rev to a max of 15, 000rpm

Current power units are particularly susceptible to detonation. An engine/ fuel combo that can run close to its limits without knocking will deliver big performance gains. Shell man said lot of work is being done on balancing out the octane levels to prevent knocking with the need to deliver max power. Higher the octane level, less chance of detonation but increasing the octane too much makes the fuel less powerful. Balancing octane, anti knock and performance is not new to the industry but it is new to F1

Another important thing is how the fuel reacts chemically when sprayed directly into the chamber.. Petronas man said...we know have to inject the fuel into the compressed air like a Diesel engine, so quality of combustion is governed by atomisation of the fuel. Small droplets are important. Surface tension of fuel has to be lowered to get max atomisation. This gives good combustion and helps get max out of the fuel

Phew! That's it. I don't understand it all. Especially the knocking part. But I get that petrol is important now like never before.

[stonemonkey]

Thanks RC