FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Roth]

So... if Mercedes can do it, this year, and their success is well received and celebrated...
Why is it so hard to believe that Red Bull did it for four, without cheating?

Or, for that matter, that Ferrari had such a period of sustained success?

((NOT being facetious, just very curious!!))

You're comparing five yrs to 2 months, so there's a lot more scrutiny to be had. Neither Ferrari nor RB were treated like weasly cheats at the start of their legacies, but certain questions were asked concerning their interpreatation of the regs, and it seemed they were technically within those regs but morally outside, partly because the parameters were wrong, and I'm thinking specifically of RB flexiwing, but there's been a few dubious RB developments. Ferrari simply had the resources and the personel and the political weight to dominate the early 2000s. And MS.

Mercedes, like Brawn, have stolen a march on the new regs, mainly by throwing more resources at them for a longer time. As far as we know they're just quicker and better prepared. Brawn didn't have the budget to keep it going. Merc do, and apparently with no shenanigans. At the moment they don't appear to need to push but if/ when the other teams catch up it will be interesting how far they are willing to stretch the rules. It's interesting though that from this season's outset RB were trying to cheat, lending weight to theories about the previous lengths they've gone to for success.

[What's Burning?]

There are very valid reasons, multiples of them even as to why people accused Red Bull of pushing the rules into deep gray areas. It would be difficult to argue their lead driver doesn't exude the traits he's come to be known for. Lastly, pulling a two second a lap gap on a chassis, engine and aero that had years of evolved and refined improvement is completely different and suspect than what Mercedes has done with the W05.

[sagi58]

Thanks, gents!!

Roth, you're right, it's not fair to compare the different lengths of time!
In the end, must as it would seem that Mercedes are headed for both
titles, the history books still haven't been written on this year!!

You mentioned interpretations and I agree that there are a lot of grey areas
in the rules; but, that seems to be the fact that the people writing the rules
aren't knowledgeable / creative enough to cover all eventualities... right?

Are Mercedes the "new" Ferrari, in respect to their commitment and resources?
And, does that suggest they may push rules, regulations, interpretations if need be?
((NOT trying to upset Mercedes' fans!!))

I'm not particularly a fan of Red Bull; but, they seem to be a determined team!!

[sagi58]

WB:

"pushing the rules into deep gray areas" isn't cheating, per se!
And, in the end, it's really up to the FIA to put their foot down!
If they don't have the professional personnel to determine how to
write rules and regulations, which include most/all eventualities
and if they don't have the professional personnel to enforce those
same rules and regulations, how can we really "blame" Red Bull for
getting away with their interpretations?

[The Second Coming]

I concede, Red Bull are a soft drinks company with a passion for sport. But they are what they are and that's not a bad thing. It's all in how you say it. If there is an air of derision in your voice, then of course it comes across a bit as a slight. It would be like saying the only thing Ferrari know how to do is make red cars. One could argue they do it VERY well.

As to the alleged allegations of Red Bull cheating…I'm not equipped to ever speak to that from a point of knowledge but I suppose I could speak to the large white elephant in the room that nobody wants to say out loud: The team and their "lead driver" could have gone about their winning very differently but from my armchair (and that of many I know), they have/had a way of rubbing their superiority in your face, very much in a manner that really de-constructs the word gracious. Again, this is just me talking. I love the brand…to this day, I still think they make some of the most beautiful race cars to just look at…I love a lot of things about them but I'm a bit put off at how they maneuvered…the tantrums…their one-sided definition of team-mates…the acrimony…the whole lot. I'm a big fan of winning in style.

For the Red Bull fans who prefer to distance themselves from the above comments, I've had a row with the neighbor today, it's now late and I'm still seething...as a consequence, I have had three too many splashes of 20 year old Scotch. In the cold (and sober) light of day, I probably would have chosen to write the above diatribe with far more consideration. Forgive me.

[Roth]

Thanks, gents!!

You mentioned interpretations and I agree that there are a lot of grey areas
in the rules; but, that seems to be the fact that the people writing the rules
aren't knowledgeable / creative enough to cover all eventualities... right?

I'd say the certain individuals are smarter than the ruling body, and certain individuals have a flexible conscience. Create a rule and the right people will bend it in ways you never imagined.

[What's Burning?]

WB:

"pushing the rules into deep gray areas" isn't cheating, per se!
And, in the end, it's really up to the FIA to put their foot down!
If they don't have the professional personnel to determine how to
write rules and regulations, which include most/all eventualities
and if they don't have the professional personnel to enforce those
same rules and regulations, how can we really "blame" Red Bull for
getting away with their interpretations?

Exactly, it's all a point of view, just like Mercedes did absolutely nothing wrong last year, when they asked for and were approved for a tire test, and yet everyone got all up in arms about it.

[spankyham]

There was a rumor on a couple of other forums that Alonso has been talking to Mercedes ....
When does Nico's contract expire?
Is it too early to start our "next year's crazy rumours thread"?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[LewEngBridewell]

There was a rumor on a couple of other forums that Alonso has been talking to Mercedes ....

That is hardly surprising

[sagi58]

WB:

"pushing the rules into deep gray areas" isn't cheating, per se!
And, in the end, it's really up to the FIA to put their foot down!
If they don't have the professional personnel to determine how to
write rules and regulations, which include most/all eventualities
and if they don't have the professional personnel to enforce those
same rules and regulations, how can we really "blame" Red Bull for
getting away with their interpretations?

Exactly, it's all a point of view, just like Mercedes did absolutely nothing wrong last year, when they asked for and were approved for a tire test, and yet everyone got all up in arms about it.

Guilty as charged, your honour!!

I guess it still goes back to subjectivity, eh?

[What's Burning?]

Due to an electrical problem that has damaged the wiring loom of Car No. 1, Sebastian will not be able to take part in FP2... #SpanishGP

Vettel should have named this year's car Ugly Betty.

[NHcheese]

Good work by button. Mclaren say the car is weather dependant. Probably the right conditions.

[geetface9]

There was a rumor on a couple of other forums that Alonso has been talking to Mercedes ....
When does Nico's contract expire?
Is it too early to start our "next year's crazy rumours thread"?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

Nico's contract expires in 2016 if I remember correctly. I believe he signed it back in 2011

[geetface9]

I hope pastor puts the e22 on the podium this weekend

[Nin-Chin]

There was a rumor on a couple of other forums that Alonso has been talking to Mercedes ....
When does Nico's contract expire?
Is it too early to start our "next year's crazy rumours thread"?

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

Nico's contract expires in 2016 if I remember correctly. I believe he signed it back in 2011

His contract expires at the end of this year.