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#398758
Edit: Rumour has it that BMW and Red Bull will join together as engine partner, think of the livery!


:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes:

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Ahhh, BMW were never that successful when they were last involved, neither with Williams or on their own!
#398759
I dont like this. Its like how multinationals can have power over countries by being in them. F1 teams now have power over the sport almost. What would happen, They can now almost bribe the FIA.


I'd rather the teams have control over the sport, than Bernie Ecclestone...


That was the idea behind Fota, alas Bernie divided and conquered by bribing some of the alliance
#398760
At least we know Sauber would never take them back.
#398762
Edit: Rumour has it that BMW and Red Bull will join together as engine partner, think of the livery!


:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes:

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Ahhh, BMW were never that successful when they were last involved, neither with Williams or on their own!


They had a management issue. The years when Dr Theissen was involved directly, they were absolutely stellar. Achieved a 1-2 in almost no time at all as a works team. Then he got "promoted" and left trackside...and they went to sh*t.

If they came back with Mario Theissen and set up their own team, oh man. Oh man oh man oh man. But I just found out he's retired. :(
#398768
If BMW decided to come back to depose Merc, they would be compelled to win and would throw the best guys and resources at it. Personally I think Merc would only worry if Porsche were ever to turn up
#398770
Good point WB, which leads to the interesting point that if we had customer cars right now, that Ferrari have been pushing, who would take a Ferrari over a Merc?

If we had customer cars now, we would have 22 Mercs (actually 20 + 2 Ferraris) on the field with the works team 2 seconds ahead of the rest of them

If there was no restriction on engine customers, every team bar Ferrari would be a Merc customer, that raises the question of why Honda or BMW would enter as engine suppliers without a works team optimised around their engine, Honda have McLaren so BMW would have to take someone over
#398774
At this point I want a strong Ferrari gaadammit because I want to beat them fair and square! Let's start talking about racing instead of regulations! It took them a while but it looks like Pirelli got on top of the tire situation, the same thing will happen with the engine regulations, trust me on it.

Mercedes should in Vettel's own words "enjoy it while it lasts".
#398776
I couldn't care about Ferrari being up there, we could have McLaren, Williams, Force India and Redbull snapping at Mercs heels soon and that's more than good enough. :thumbup:

Maybe Ferrari might finally do everyone a favour and make good on their annual threats when they see no way back. Helps them move on (maybe create a new formula ferrari with v16 engines to blow everyones eardrums skyhigh), and let's us get on with the racing in F1. Everyone happy.
#398778
At this point I want a strong Ferrari gaadammit because I want to beat them fair and square! Let's start talking about racing instead of regulations! It took them a while but it looks like Pirelli got on top of the tire situation, the same thing will happen with the engine regulations, trust me on it.

Mercedes should in Vettel's own words "enjoy it while it lasts".


Over the next couple of years the engines will be allowed to catch up to Merc and then we should have stability and a freeze, unless Ferrari insist that F1 should continue to be about engines and that the regs should reflect this instead of aero.
In the recent N/A age Merc had the best engines especially the year McLaren lapped the field in the first race, but Ferrari got the beryllium change in the regs over them resulting in engines going pop
This time around I think Ferrari should be on par by the start of next season, this season is too big a task I think, however there will be a significant cost to Ferrari catching up before next years homologation, but they could literally reproduce the Merc engine for next year now the detailed specs are with the FIA
#398785
Is the homologation only for this year? Mercedes will still have an advantage as they will be 1 year down the evolutionary path.

As for customer cars, this year I am sure we would have 16 Red Bull, 2 Ferrari, 2 Mercedes, 2 Mclarens.

Sent using NCC-1701
#398790
About BMW, why am I talking about BMW? But while I am. The time I liked them most was when they were the engines for Williams and JPM was driving for them . That was sweet!
#398799
For me, all of the manufacturers need to take a step back. Ok, I know that the engine suppliers have their own interests, but they really do need to accept the direction the FIA have taken the sport, and work to that.

I personally agree with the changes, I think its important to keep Formula 1 relevant and at the cutting edge of motoring technology, so you would therefore assume that I naturally fall onto the Merc side of this argument. I do, but I don't agree with the way they did it. Nobody should be holding the sport to ransom! It feels like some people like to try to do that all too much. Be it Ferrari, Merc or even the commercial rights holder!!
#398802
There is absolutely no suggestion or evidence that Merc held or tried to hold anyone to ransom. There are 2 different interests here, the F1 team and the engine supplier for F1. After the financial crisis, many of the engine makers who ran works teams pulled out with indecent haste, including Honda, Toyota and BMW. The remaining ones were asked how the sport could become better for them.
They all came up with their preferences, each engine maker ofcourse would have a criteria that made sense for it and would prevent it departing like the others, lets remember that the makers were spending vast amounts with no apparent gain.
Renault quit running an F1 team and were about to stop supplying engines, they did a u tuirn when assured the engines would be made relevant, Merc stated their prefernce for the engines to be relevant. Ferrari also stated their preference. Starting with 4 cylinder (straight 4's?) relevant for Audi and most mass manufacturer up to V8's etc for small volume sports car makers. A compromise after a delay was for the V6 turbo.

Merc as a team have never blackmailed F1, neither as an engine supplier. Renault as an engine supplier did. Ferrari as a team have on numerous occasions.

Any suggestion that Merc threatened to leave if the engines were not changed is at best ignorant and at worst s*** stirring and bad mouthing. In fact anyone categorically claiming that Merc said 'new turbo or we quit' would be inviting litigation. All they said was that 'had the engine formula not changed, the chances are they would have quit SUPPLYING engines as there would be no relevance to their business

As F1 fans its important we combat the spreading of stories that originate from a minority with an agenda. This is what Bernie does all the time through the media, and its what Montezemol tries to do but with farcical results mostly

The team which has profited most from the changes, with three wins out of three in 2014 and an engine which is believed to have as much as 100bhp more than its rivals, said the new turbo-powered engines provided the justification for their continuing presence in the sport.


Merc said this

Pressed as to whether Mercedes would have walked away had F1 not committed to the efficiency formula, he said: "I think so, yeah because we had the discussion.

"We had at different times the challenge to discuss F1 with the (Daimler) supervisory board.

"We had hard discussions. And it was always - and even more so when it came to the later years - harder to explain why we were using naturally aspirated engines.

"Now with these new regulations I can clearly convince the supervisory board that the (F1 team) are doing exactly what we need - downsizing, direct injection, lightweight construction, fuel efficiency on the highest possible level, new technologies and combining a combustion engine with an e-motor hybrid."

Weber also hit back at claims by Ferrari president Luca Di Montezmolo that fans are not enjoying F1's fuel-flow restriction as they cannot understand it.

The Daimler man said it was a "stupid discussion" and that if fans didn't grasp it that was a "communication issue."


We are not stuck with only the media feeding us doctored info, why should we, on an open forum not grab the opportunity to reject spin and embrace the truth and after hearing the facts decide for ourselves?
Last edited by CookinFlat6 on 10 Apr 14, 22:20, edited 1 time in total.

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