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[Hammer278]

One more thing Sagi, I thought you'd find this amusing given your statements. The inaugural GP in Bahrain was won by Schumacher with Barrichello second, with everyone else fighting for third.

Take solace, as Bogie would say we'll always have Paris.

Very cool!! Just wondering, did they have 24 seconds in hand, at the end of the race?

p.s. I've already googled it and the answer is a resounding "no"! Everyone finished the
race (bar Kimi) within six minutes of Schumi crossing the line!! 5.648m to be exact!

Doesn't matter how many seconds they had in hand, leading a race is leading. If the 3rd car is just 3 seconds behind the 2nd car, there's still no racing there its called 'following'.

Let's not be hypocritical, a team which has done the best job deserves to be ahead. The racing was fantastic on Sunday and if it's that way throughout the season there really is no reason to complain since it only takes two to tango (what we watch the sport for) and the enjoyment is there. But Ferrari have pretty much the same problem as Redbull, a lack of horsepower. Their chassis seems to be pretty much up there already.

Btw, I noted spankyham's post reg the thread topic but since sagi had made two off topic posts after, I figured I'm entitled to respond to one of them with my own 2 cents. Hope this is cool.

[spankyham]

Come on boys, you've seen what you need to do. Get the car sorted and put Nando and Kimi in a competitive position so they can share in creating some more excitement like we had last race! Luca, if there's no immediate improvement its time for some big heads to roll. There's some talent on sidelines gardening at the moment, but I'm sure you don't need me to point that out to you.

 wrote:">Two days of testing with Alonso in Bahrain

Sakhir, 7 April – Scuderia Ferrari, just like the other ten Formula 1 teams, hasn’t left Bahrain after yesterday’s race as tomorrow the F14 T will be running again in the fourth test session of the year.

Previous test sessions were held before the start of the championship on the Spanish track of Jerez de la Frontera (one) and here in Sakhir (two), whilst tomorrow’s sesion kick starts the comeback of in-season testing.

The two-day test will be the first of four that will be organized throughout the course of the season, a reintroduction strongly wanted by Ferrari which has always believed that no computer simulation can be more effective than the response gained on track.

Driving for Scuderia Ferrari will be Fernando Alonso, who will try to help the team make the much needed improvements that Stefano Domenicali has strongly requested. Fernando will face a particularly intense programme, with work focused on adressing certain areas of weakness of the car while continuing to develop the stronger points that have been demonstrated so far.

[Nin-Chin]

I still don't get why Ferrari suck now. I find no reason whatsoever. Luca didn't say anything bad about the regs before the year started I believe and now that Ferrari still suck(seriously they should be fighting for titles) he's now saying F1 sucks now and rules should be changed.

[Hammer278]

What is that big ball of cotton thing at the left of the pic.

[spankyham]

I still don't get why Ferrari suck now. I find no reason whatsoever. Luca didn't say anything bad about the regs before the year started I believe and now that Ferrari still suck(seriously they should be fighting for titles) he's now saying F1 sucks now and rules should be changed.

Perhaps you didn't follow Ferrari/Luca's comments leading up to the season. Since the inception of the new turbo Ferrari opposed it. It was changed from a 4 to 6 pot engine and delayed a year, I assume that was, at least in part, in response to Ferrari's opposition.

Personally I support Ferrari and Luca's right to have and express an opinion. I'm rather surprised at the ferocity and weight of opinion here that seem to believe Ferrari/Luca have no right to publicly express their opinion.

Your first question, which I will rephrase to why Ferrari have been so far from the leaders in the first 3 races, is a good question. Firstly I don't think the team has anything but determination to catch up, I love that about Ferrari.

Ferrari were always going to be challenged with the move to power units instead of engines. There are multiple major components of the PU of which Ferrari has background and experience in only one, the ICE (not the turbo component). My guess is the Ferrari ICE is pretty handy, and may well be covering up for quite a deficiency in the other/electrical components. Certainly the efficiency of the ICE is very good as it is having to do more to make up for the lack of power from the ERS side, yet it is using similar amounts of fuel to the Merc and Renault ICE's.

Who knows how long it will take Ferrari to catch up in the ERS area, but this is where improvements are needed as it addresses the lack of top end speed and drive-ability out of low speed corners. But as I said before, I'm sure the team is flat out trying to make up for the huge disadvantage they faced when this PU format was decided upon.

[Hammer278]

I still don't get why Ferrari suck now. I find no reason whatsoever. Luca didn't say anything bad about the regs before the year started I believe and now that Ferrari still suck(seriously they should be fighting for titles) he's now saying F1 sucks now and rules should be changed.

Perhaps you didn't follow Ferrari/Luca's comments leading up to the season. Since the inception of the new turbo Ferrari opposed it. It was changed from a 4 to 6 pot engine and delayed a year, I assume that was, at least in part, in response to Ferrari's opposition.

Personally I support Ferrari and Luca's right to have and express an opinion. I'm rather surprised at the ferocity and weight of opinion here that seem to believe Ferrari/Luca have no right to publicly express their opinion.

No one's opposed to him expressing his opinions, what pisses people off are the fact that he's back to his lobbying tactics in order to try and catch up off track. He rarely travels outside Italy or Europe for races, but he was in Bahrain to attend secret events with Bernie and Todt to discuss changes. You call this "expressing an opinion"?

[What's Burning?]

I still don't get why Ferrari suck now. I find no reason whatsoever. Luca didn't say anything bad about the regs before the year started I believe and now that Ferrari still suck(seriously they should be fighting for titles) he's now saying F1 sucks now and rules should be changed.

Perhaps you didn't follow Ferrari/Luca's comments leading up to the season. Since the inception of the new turbo Ferrari opposed it. It was changed from a 4 to 6 pot engine and delayed a year, I assume that was, at least in part, in response to Ferrari's opposition.

Personally I support Ferrari and Luca's right to have and express an opinion. I'm rather surprised at the ferocity and weight of opinion here that seem to believe Ferrari/Luca have no right to publicly express their opinion.

Your first question, which I will rephrase to why Ferrari have been so far from the leaders in the first 3 races, is a good question. Firstly I don't think the team has anything but determination to catch up, I love that about Ferrari.

Ferrari were always going to be challenged with the move to power units instead of engines. There are multiple major components of the PU of which Ferrari has background and experience in only one, the ICE (not the turbo component). My guess is the Ferrari ICE is pretty handy, and may well be covering up for quite a deficiency in the other/electrical components. Certainly the efficiency of the ICE is very good as it is having to do more to make up for the lack of power from the ERS side, yet it is using similar amounts of fuel to the Merc and Renault ICE's.

Who knows how long it will take Ferrari to catch up in the ERS area, but this is where improvements are needed as it addresses the lack of top end speed and drive-ability out of low speed corners. But as I said before, I'm sure the team is flat out trying to make up for the huge disadvantage they faced when this PU format was decided upon.

That may all be the case Spanky but if I was buying a super car today, the highest echelon of performance is expected to be at the McLaren P1, the Porsche 918 and the La Ferrari, all very much PU cars. What's happening on the track doesn't inspire much confidence and listening to Luca blame their key suppliers is not what Ferrari is about.

[CookinFlat6]

Domenically Fry, Alonso and Kimi have all stated that Ferraris problems are not limited to the PU or ERS but that their biggest problems are lack of aero followed by chassis, traction, drivability, brakes

In fact Domenically clearly said ALL parts of the car had to be improved

The sooner Ferrari stop sugar coating the facts and have a top down overhaul they will always be playing catchup to those who have done this.

And I'm sure Merc would rather beat a strong competitive a Ferrari than a weakened one, as Lewis would appreciate it more if he could whip a competitive Alonso on his way to a title

Just MHO, I don't want to upset anyone by pointing out facts and this is not meant to 'bait' Ferrari fans or rub salt in etc, it's just logical appraisal that cannot be avoided except in a banana republic

[bud]

That may all be the case Spanky but if I was buying a super car today, the highest echelon of performance is expected to be at the McLaren P1, the Porsche 918 and the La Ferrari. What's happening on the track doesn't inspire much confidence and listening to Luca blame their key suppliers is not what Ferrari is about.

Exactly, this is where the auto industry is heading, F1 is staying relevant to which one would say is far more important for the future of the sport rather than a few dinosaurs of the sport wanting to go old school to appease the now.
The lack of noise sucks, there was nothing like the 20K RPM but F1 needs to stay relevant and this new era is doing exactly that.

[spankyham]

That may all be the case Spanky but if I was buying a super car today, the highest echelon of performance is expected to be at the McLaren P1, the Porsche 918 and the La Ferrari. What's happening on the track doesn't inspire much confidence and listening to Luca blame their key suppliers is not what Ferrari is about.

Exactly, this is where the auto industry is heading, F1 is staying relevant to which one would say is far more important for the future of the sport rather than a few dinosaurs of the sport wanting to go old school to appease the now.
The lack of noise sucks, there was nothing like the 20K RPM but F1 needs to stay relevant and this new era is doing exactly that.

I'd disagree with both you gentlemen .... sorry about that.

The super car industry is littered with "highest" performance vehicles that have failed the sales test. McLaren's MP4-12C is a brilliant car in terms of specs and and race performance. When compared to the 458 Ferrari (a normally aspirated V8) the McLaren hits the buttons of being a smaller turbo charged unit. Yet, while the 458 continues its staggering sales success, the MP4-12C has just been pulled from production.

Both you gents have great knowledge and understanding of F1 and super cars. Perhaps I'd agree with your assessment of "direction" if we were talking about production cars. But, in the super-car world, I wonder if Luca and Ferrari might also know a thing or too.

[What's Burning?]

I have a normally aspirated car that was once upon a time "super". Today, a Toyota Camry has more power than it does. But sales is one thing, and the 458 is a last of the breed. With the changes being made globally, in the US by 2025 to sell cars, your fleet average must be 54.5 Mpg.

As I said elsewhere the 918 Spyder goes around the Nurburgring in under seven minutes yet can cruise at highway speeds getting 70 Mpg. The future, although it may "sound" like crap, is inevitable.

[bud]

you're comparing McLarens first automotive challenger to that of the established Ferrari brand? Ferrari could make super duds instead of super cars and still outsell smaller super car brands.

as for the 12C it has been axed to make way on the production line for the replacement the 650S, which is basically a 12C with some aesthetics and mechanical upgrades.

[CookinFlat6]

The 12c hasnt been axed, it has evolved. Just like the Ferrari 208 evolved to the 308 then the 328 then the 348, then the 360 etc

McLaren are not resting on any laurels but pushing the limits and annexing other spaces in the food chain

[What's Burning?]

What is that big ball of cotton thing at the left of the pic.

That's most likely a weather radar dome.

[NHcheese]

What is that big ball of cotton thing at the left of the pic.

That's most likely a weather radar dome.

Or the moon! WAREWOLF FERRARI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!