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[darwin dali]

Before Mclaren fans condemn Alonso they should always ask themselves this quesiton: Would Senna act any differently?

Answer that truthfully and then you wouldn't Alonso so much

I don't see the relevance here. Since when is Senna the measuring stick for everybody???

Since he attained legendary status.

Kuhscheisse! So have other drivers.
So, back to my question: since when is Senna the measuring stick for everybody? Especially in the behavior department (which you list explicitly here) I don't see the very flawed Senna as a standard to compare with...

[bud]

Winning at all costs is the mentality, and it doesn't matter whether it's your team-mate you're taking out or a driver from a rival team. If the people who had done the latter wanted to win that much and had a team-mate that was threatening their status, I'm willing to bet they'd give it some thought.

And when I say ruin someone's chances, I mean make it so that their championship is under threat and that, because of your actions, they may lose it.

i thnk you should see a shrink

Kuhscheisse! So have other drivers.
So, back to my question: since when is Senna the measuring stick for everybody? Especially in the behavior department (which you list explicitly here) I don't see the very flawed Senna as a standard to compare with...

who is your measuring stick then?
yeah yeah we know, Michael Schumacher

[darwin dali]

How about Graham Hill or Clay Regazzoni for gentleman attitude and behavior?

[6thsecondfaster]

It's not so much the people as the mindset. In order to win a championship, Senna took Prost out. Schumacher tried to do the same thing with Villeneuve, but failed. Alonso tried to give himself an advantage over Lewis by impeding him in qualifying. Not quite the extent of the others, but it's the same mindset. The same mentality.

I agree, Denthul, Alonso did that because LH blocked him on his flying lap. Alonso probably complained to RD but nothing happen so Alonso did that. It was a retaliation reaction. It was not a greedy opportunistic action of I am going to take this guy out so that I win the WDC or I am going to slow down so that this guy does not get a good flying lap. They probably have the same mindset, but there are limits to everything and AS, MS and LH cross limits beyond the pale.

[bud]

It's not so much the people as the mindset. In order to win a championship, Senna took Prost out. Schumacher tried to do the same thing with Villeneuve, but failed. Alonso tried to give himself an advantage over Lewis by impeding him in qualifying. Not quite the extent of the others, but it's the same mindset. The same mentality.

Alonso did that because LH blocked him on his flying lap. Alonso probably complained to RD but nothing happen so Alonso did that. It was a retaliation reaction. It was not a greedy opportunistic action of I am going to take this guy out so that I win the WDC or I am going to slow down so that this guy does not get a good flying lap.

actually he didnt block him it was Alonso's turn that race to have the last lap for pole but Lewis didnt do that, which is why Fernando held him up so he wouldnt have enough time to do another lap.
and Ron was not happy at either driver, the press reported over the radio Ron swearing at Lewis "dont you ever f***ing do that to me again"
but then again he wasnt too impressed with Alonso either, and after that Alonso did the blackmail with the emails. the rest his history

[6thsecondfaster]

OK...but my point was that FA did something in response to an action done by LH, and not vice versa. Yes, FA should not have done that nor the blackmailing. But if RD was angry with LH for doing that to FA, then, I guess that it would have not matter to RD that much the fact that FA held LH there for 10 seconds.

[racechick]

Lewis disobeyed an order but did not interfere with Alonso's ability to set a lap. Alonso retatiated and escalated things HUGHLY when he DID interfere with Lewis' ability to set a lap. Ron said on tv he was angry with Lewis. He also protesterd the punishment saying it was an internal team isuue.

Lewis has never done anything to interfere with or endanger another driver deliberatley in the style of MS or AS (I bring that up because someone just linked him to them for that reason). If you want to know about his on track ethics get the views of his sparring partners from other categories, some like suthil, Rosberg and Kubica are still around. They all say he races hard but fair as do competitors going back to karting days. I prefer to listen people like that than folk who dont like him because he getsoverexposed in the press

[6thsecondfaster]

Lewis disobeyed an order but did not interfere with Alonso's ability to set a lap. Alonso retatiated and escalated things HUGHLY when he DID interfere with Lewis' ability to set a lap. Ron said on tv he was angry with Lewis. He also protesterd the punishment saying it was an internal team isuue.

However, LH did something, he was suppose to let FA pass. But like I said before, if FA kept his cool, he would not have started fifth and probably had finished slightly higher than fourth. Which would mean that he would have won the WDC and stayed at Mclaren.

Lewis has never done anything to interfere with or endanger another driver deliberatley in the style of MS or AS (I bring that up because someone just linked him to them for that reason). If you want to know about his on track ethics get the views of his sparring partners from other categories, some like suthil, Rosberg and Kubica are still around. They all say he races hard but fair as do competitors going back to karting days. I prefer to listen people like that than folk who dont like him because he getsoverexposed in the press

I admit that part of my dislike for LH comes from the constant bombardment of praise of him by the British press and most notably ITV. Also RD protecting is protege does not help (although some people point to the relationship Briatore has with FA). But once you side with FA, it is easy to not like LH, even if Suthil, Rosberg and Kubica say he is a righteous dude. Yes, he also has not done what MS and AS used to do. No one is doing that, thank havens.

[Denthúl]

It's not so much the people as the mindset. In order to win a championship, Senna took Prost out. Schumacher tried to do the same thing with Villeneuve, but failed. Alonso tried to give himself an advantage over Lewis by impeding him in qualifying. Not quite the extent of the others, but it's the same mindset. The same mentality.

Alonso did that because LH blocked him on his flying lap. Alonso probably complained to RD but nothing happen so Alonso did that. It was a retaliation reaction. It was not a greedy opportunistic action of I am going to take this guy out so that I win the WDC or I am going to slow down so that this guy does not get a good flying lap.

actually he didnt block him it was Alonso's turn that race to have the last lap for pole but Lewis didnt do that, which is why Fernando held him up so he wouldnt have enough time to do another lap.
and Ron was not happy at either driver, the press reported over the radio Ron swearing at Lewis "dont you ever f***ing do that to me again"
but then again he wasnt too impressed with Alonso either, and after that Alonso did the blackmail with the emails. the rest his history

Which is a form of blocking, squire.

Lewis disobeyed an order but did not interfere with Alonso's ability to set a lap. Alonso retatiated and escalated things HUGHLY when he DID interfere with Lewis' ability to set a lap. Ron said on tv he was angry with Lewis. He also protesterd the punishment saying it was an internal team isuue.

By not letting Alonso pass, Hamilton prevented him from having plenty of space in which to set a very fast lap. Furthermore, if you're going to disobey a legitimate order from your team, you shouldn't be in the team.

[Martin]

By not letting Alonso pass, Hamilton prevented him from having plenty of space in which to set a very fast lap. Furthermore, if you're going to disobey a legitimate order from your team, you shouldn't be in the team.[/quote]

Is my mind playing tricks again? I thought that LH did not let FA past because FA was not near enough - is that right? If so LH did not hold up FA but did break team rules, and alter the final the final run order.
When FA was holding up LH I'll bet that he wanted to suck his thumb at the same time! LH was technically wrong but FA was spiteful, childish and even more wrong, especially since he wanted to claim the 'senior' driver position. I just wish that FA would get on with driving, which he is very good at, he seems to be crap at all other aspects of life.

[Denthúl]

He wasn't that far back. Not close enough to overtake, but close enough that Lewis could have caused him to be slowed if he made a mistake in one of the corners.

He should have followed an instruction from the team and he didn't. If the team boss had been Frank Williams or Flavio Briatore, he wouldn't have gotten away with it as easily as he did. Had the instruction been given to Fernando, I'm pretty sure Lewis would have been pissed off if it wasn't followed.

[bud]

Which is a form of blocking, squire.

yeah you can invent your own motor racing etiquet especially you Hamilton haters

[Denthúl]

Which is a form of blocking, squire.

yeah you can invent your own motor racing etiquet especially you Hamilton haters

What? I'm sorry, but impeding another car, whether it is by not moving aside when they are on a hot lap and you are not, or by stopping them in the pit lane like Alonso did, is against the rules and shouldn't be done.

And where on Earth do you get this idea that I'm a Hamilton hater? My point wasn't even about anything that he did!

[6thsecondfaster]

If the team boss had been Frank Williams or Flavio Briatore, he wouldn't have gotten away with it as easily as he did. Had the instruction been given to Fernando, I'm pretty sure Lewis would have been pissed off if it wasn't followed.

I agree. Williams does not look like a sweet guy. However, RD has never shown so much affection for a driver. Maybe with Mika, but not with DC or KR.

[bud]

Dude he DIDNT impede at all,

they took turns who had the last run in Q each race, the last guy having the run meant longer fuel burn plus slightly grippier track, thus the advantage of going out after your team mate.
there was no Physical impeding at all by Hamilton. so i dont know where you are getting that from.