FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Hammer278]

You never know - Buttons feedback could be 1st rate - its just the engineers cant deliver to thar feedback?

Its a thought.

They didn't have problems delivering feedback in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 (all seasons where they managed race wins, podiums, and didn't fall backwards even if they started poorly)

2012 and 2013 were examples of seasons when the TP in love was more keen on getting a up to speed and listening more to a when it got lapped by its teammate in a race, and basically telling the media to talk more about while the driver in the other car is still learning from the .

2012 - They locked out the front row in Melbourne and Sepang, and then fell back to 3rd best by end of the season.

2013 - Their first year led 100% by our feathered friend who claimed in winter testing that McLaren have built the best car in their history, and the rest is...(0 podiums, 0 wins) history.

2014 winter testing - and we come to this thread. Same song, over and over and over again...songs played back at BAR, Benetton, Williams, Honda, probably could be seen as a minor contribution to teams cursed to fall back to midfield/bankruptcy.

[CookinFlat6]

great attention to detail there hamms

What concerns me most is that the only driver to moan about his car not faster round a corner than the RB10 is

I mean, everyone else is going about their business capitalising on the RB10s weaknesses and you have one guy decalring his team have to provide him a better car to beat the RB10. I mean the red Bull cant even complete a few laps and Button is complaining his car needs to improve

other drivers would be helping th team become faster, button says 'the engineers have to go away and find downforce'

The only hope is Maggieson starts influencing the engineers once he starts whipping button in quali

[LRW]

You never know - Buttons feedback could be 1st rate - its just the engineers cant deliver to thar feedback?

Its a thought.

They didn't have problems delivering feedback in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 (all seasons where they managed race wins, podiums, and didn't fall backwards even if they started poorly)....

But I'm talking about the engineering teams as a whole, and not just the headline designers and heads of departments. We don't know what other key mid level engineers nay have been replaced in 2012....

My point is - If they are happy to employ an incompetent TP and a middle rate F1 driver (in your opinion), then who's to say what bumbling middle level engineers they might employ. You know, the sort of engineers that put bits on the car upside down.

[Hammer278]

You have your answer in your own post.....when a chicken coop is run by an incompetent rooster, other birds of the same feather could flock together quite conveniently....the point is that wherever seems to go, the incompetency grows so rapidly that even us couch-fans are able to notice it.

[LRW]

I know I have my answer. The answer is - McLaren were / are happy to employ Whitmarsh/Button so its safe to assume Mclaren could employ other people not at the top of the game, who are still there. Therefore its not necessarily Button at fault - it could be any number of employees.

[CookinFlat6]

yeah, it will take a bit of time to right the wrongs of the poultry era. As long as we see some great performance from Maggieson, and Boiler eliminates all the lame and disturbing decisions, then 2015 will be the great restart.

It would be good to see Mag challenge for something, to prove what was missing in 2013 - a real Mclaren driver

[CookinFlat6]

I meant to post this here and posted elsewhere by mistake

The suspicion has to be that the factory Mercedes team have left some performance untapped, for it seems not to make sense that Williams and Force India, midfielders in 2013, can have cars of comparable pace to the team who finished second.
But even if Williams are somewhere close, they will have produced one of the great F1 revivals.
Last year was the worst in Williams' history - they scored only five points. Recognising they were in dire shape, a major overhaul of the team's engineering department has been undertaken, and already it seems to have made a big difference.

[bud]

That doesn't make any sense, of course it's possible for Williams or FI to be up there with such a big change in the regs! Previous season doesn't matter, it's like saying its impossible for Redbull to drop back into the back because they finished first.

[LRW]

That doesn't make any sense, of course it's possible for Williams or FI to be up there with such a big change in the regs! Previous season doesn't matter, it's like saying its impossible for Redbull to drop back into the back because they finished first.

My thoughts exactly.

[CookinFlat6]

That doesn't make any sense, of course it's possible for Williams or FI to be up there with such a big change in the regs! Previous season doesn't matter, it's like saying its impossible for Redbull to drop back into the back because they finished first.

Fair enough, although the engine is the largest part of the reg change and its clear those teams have moved to the front just by having the right engine. Also it doesnt explain McLarens winter testing going backwards compared to the other Merc cars. Why have they not brought updates when they did not have more reliability issues etc than the others. Why have both FI and Williams overtaken McLaren from behind last season?

Does anyone have any sensible thoughts on this?

[LRW]

Because this year they are the better teams? Especially for Williams - who have bolstered their management and tech departments over the winter haven't they? And McLaren are probably going through a bit of turmoil now big bad Ron is back - so Im not really surpried....

[CookinFlat6]

Button expects to be fighting Marrussia

McLaren driver Button is quoted by Brazil’s Totalrace: “It’s interesting to see how some teams have improved their cars suddenly.

“There are several teams that are strong at the moment,” he added. “Even Marussia — their car is much better than last year.

“I think people will be surprised at how they are actually competitive,” said Button.

[Hammer278]

[LRW]

Oh I see - now someone comes back to you with a half sensible answer to your question re: FI and Williams, you change the conversation entirely. And now claim Button says something he hasnt.

No wonder people see you the way they do.

[CookinFlat6]

Oh I see - now someone comes back to you with a half sensible answer to your question re: FI and Williams, you change the conversation entirely. And now claim Button says something he hasnt.

No wonder people see you the way they do.

oohh hurt me, hurt me

I didnt reply because the same answer has already been discussed and answered. This is how dumb and circular arguments start
Its not my fault you cannot work out what has already been said and I dont have time to teach you how to suck eggs