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[Jabberwocky]

So what bhp are they all supposed to be producing?

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[spankyham]

So what bhp are they all supposed to be producing?

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We don't know, but for sure it will be about the same. No one is going to magically suddenly produce a significantly different outcome in hp given the same energy input and all the other restrictions within the rules. As much as fans want to think so, it simply won't happen. The areas for differences in the pt exist primarily (well for this season) in reliability. Thereafter it will be in methods of recovered energy use and in gearing. Compare FI gear changes to Mercedes or McLaren. FI seem to only use 6th (I think) where others are using 8th. Of course what I think will be crucial is how effectively teams transfer power to the road. You can have 1000+ hp but it's no good if you can't use it. In fact you might argue it is simply going to stress the pt needlessly effecting reliability and longevity in a bad way. Perhaps the smartest team will be the one producing least hp that is all transferable to the road.


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[CookinFlat6]

I think the engines could all produce a peak bhp in excess of what they need. The key will be how much they can get to the wheels for the amount of fuel required to complete the race.
I think thats where Merc are strong, their unit is more powerful for the same amount of fuel ferrari use. Or to put it another way it appears as though the Ferrari might actually be more thirsty.

This is just gouing from what we have seen and heard and rumours

[What's Burning?]

So what bhp are they all supposed to be producing?

We don't know, but for sure it will be about the same. No one is going to magically suddenly produce a significantly different outcome in hp given the same energy input and all the other restrictions within the rules.

This is an oversimplification to say the least. I know there's no magic and you don't get something from nothing, but the same way there's differences in aerodynamics given the rules are the same for everyone, there are differences of efficiency in engine design. So you have the same energy input but how efficiently and reliably that energy is put on the road can be quite dramatic. We're not talking 10 or 15% but we're certainly looking at 2~4% in efficiency, and clearly the reliability delta is going to be even greater than the power delta.

[spankyham]

This is an oversimplification to say the least. I know there's no magic and you don't get something from nothing, but ....

So basically I oversimplified but you agree with everything I said


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[spankyham]

I think the engines could all produce a peak bhp in excess of what they need. The key will be how much they can get to the wheels for the amount of fuel required to complete the race.
I think thats where Merc are strong, their unit is more powerful for the same amount of fuel ferrari use. Or to put it another way it appears as though the Ferrari might actually be more thirsty.

This is just gouing from what we have seen and heard and rumours

Interesting. I'm so unsure of things but if I had to lean in any directions I'd be guessing Ferrari is the economical/smooth engine (full race pace focus) but Mercedes has the best one-lap pace - get pole then control race from the front. Perhaps I'm too influenced by previous philosophies of these teams.


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[racechick]

but Mercedes have spent practically all their testing days on reliability and race runs and testing different bits. I don't believe they've really let rip yet, so how can you come to that conclusion? Lewis was what 6th? Yesterday. That's not going for a quali time.

[spankyham]

but Mercedes have spent practically all their testing days on reliability and race runs and testing different bits. I don't believe they've really let rip yet, so how can you come to that conclusion? Lewis was what 6th? Yesterday. That's not going for a quali time.

I may well be completely wrong, as I always say it is very hard to determine much from testing. Having said that, by my count there are at least 4 times, where Mercedes looked to be doing q setup and runs and they have referred to their q Sims. Lauda it's on record as saying they have been going flat out with their engines from Jerez. Nico said he was having problems with fuel management here in testing and that it would be harder in a race. Bahrain should not be a track where fuel consumption should be an issue as it is usually only just over 60% full throttle which is less that the hour allowed running Max fuel flow rates. Those are the triggers that make me feel Mercedes have a focus more aligned to one lap speed. Plus that has been Mercedes strength and ethos previously.
Conversely Ferrari have not yet done any q setup or runs that I could see and have seemed more reluctant to push their engines as hard as Mercedes. Plus their is the clearly audible cutting off the Ferrari engine on deceleration and the comparatively smooth down shifting - easy difference to hear. Ferrari have spent way more time than anyone correlating wt and cfd data. Plus they have spent a lot time on tire testing. Even yesterday they were running around with big aero rigs on the car this late in testing.
Then again, and as I previously said, I'm unsure and could well be completely wrong.


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[CookinFlat6]

Merc haven't used super softs yet, I think we will be seeing their quali runs today and tomorrow

We should see their true pace then

Ted Kravitz diary mentioned a thirsty Ferrari, also a Ferrari person has said they don't get how Merc can extract do much power for the fuel amount. A quali lap would be where to see the car that's transfers it's power to the wheels best

[racechick]

Maybe Nico was practising saving fuel, to see what it felt like to do it in the race. He said it was hard and the drivers would be heavily reliant on the engineers to help them......which means listening and accepting those calls from the pits to turn down engines, not just carry on racing. (Jenson and Vettel spring immediately to mind).

Ive not been glued to testing but kept a reasonably close eye on it and I can't remember seeing Lewis really let it go, but maybe he has.

Onto today, Merc are doing a precautionary engine change after spotting something overnight. Hulk is doing a race run. He's doing the times Nico was posting last week apparently....which sounds pretty damn good!

[LiamCatterson]

Hmmmm....Maybe Red Bull's sponsor next year could be RAC

[CookinFlat6]

Button reckons the RB10 is faster round the corners

Button warns, "a four-time world champion like Red Bull is allowed to deduct never It's just not clear whether they are already competitive in the first race, or after 3 races.." Quite compare the performances of the two cars but could not be. Behind the fuel load was still a question mark. "He was also on soft tires, I on medium", analyzed button. "That certainly has mattered. Especially with the cooler temperatures in the afternoon." Nevertheless, the differences between the McLaren and Red Bull already in the short comparison were already clear.

"We are faster on the straight. They know for sure., We are behind the other drove a few laps. Because Daniel is not passed on the straight. He then passed me in turn 11, a high-speed left-hander. That was interesting. Sowas I have never experienced before. therefore you also have their strong areas. "

RBR have caught up with McLaren already in downforce and performance? or its just Button cant drive fast round a corner with low rear grip
It just cant be right that McLaren are not up there

And Magnus is already quicker than Buttons fastest time yesterday although its a slower and windy track. Of course its only testing but I hope the team are not going to follow Buttons lead while Magnus is around

[What's Burning?]

This is an oversimplification to say the least. I know there's no magic and you don't get something from nothing, but ....

So basically I oversimplified but you agree with everything I said

Yes. You're not wrong, just not right enough.

[CookinFlat6]

So looks like Ferrari now going for the fast laps, We should soon find out where they are compared to the others

[CookinFlat6]

Wow, bang, take that - Rosberg 133s again. Now we find out where the rest are on 1 lap pace